The Future of Running and Travel: Personalization, Community, and Experience Over Speed

Kamal Datta: Hey everyone, welcome to What Runs a Run Pod and to this mini-series on travel and running. Usually most people explore a new city by bus, metro or a slow-moving walking tour. But my guest today believes the best way to see the world is at a 6 minute per kilometer. She left a high flying carrier at Marsk to prove that you can combine your passion for running with your love for travel. Today, our company operates in over 70 cities globally. Lena Anderson, welcome to the show.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Thank you, Kamal, and thank you for this very impressive introduction. Thank you very much.

Kamal Datta: Cool, so I want to start with, if you want to take us back, your background, I think I gave you a high level overview that you had a very successful career before you started go running tours. When did you make the transition and what drove you to do the transition into what you started or what you're running today?

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Yeah. So I had, used to work in corporate life. You of course, sell it as a high flying career. think everything is relative, but I definitely had a career in the private sector and corporate life. used to work for, I've always been in marketing and I've always been in strategy and I used to work, my last job was for Maersk, as you mentioned, which is a big Danish shipping company. So that's really sort of my... my commercial background and that's also how Go Running 2 started because in that role, I had an incredible amount of travel days every year, think it was around 200 travel days and I'm based in Denmark, but one week I was in Dubai and then I was off to New York and then it was St. Paul, it was incredibly exciting. But that's really how the whole idea of Go Running 2 started because I... traveled a lot, also of course worked a lot, but I made a promise to myself that really if I was going to spend so much of my life sort of working and being in these incredible cities, I would make sure that I saw the cities. And a lot of times the only chance I really had to see these cities was during my...

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: morning runs. So that's really how go running to a status. I would always on my own go for a run and go out and explore these cities. But then sometimes it would be challenging. Sometimes I'm sure many people recognize this if they have a meeting at

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: at nine they have to be back to then you end up running down a main road and back a main road because you need to get your run in and then you need to get back on time, be back on time. And other times you end up having these incredible runs where the sun is rising, you find all these nice alleyways and incredible sites. So that's really how I started exploring the cities but really how go running to a start it was

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Where I sort of sometimes ran into problems in terms of, I mentioned, you run down the main road, you run back again. You might end up in neighborhoods where you don't feel too comfortable. And, and other times you end up not going for a run simply because you don't know where to go or it's, it's, it's, might not be a safe area that you're in. So it was from this problem that I started go running to us thinking that.

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: I can't be the only person in the world who would like to run and explore a city and really have amazing runs every time, not on a chance and really have the certainty that I will be running and I will explore a city at the same time. So that's how GoRange was really started.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Cool. I'm just curious because I do have this challenge that you just started and I'm sure a lot of people who travel as extensively as is you or to some extent probably can echo with the sentiment. It's just like... you have a packed schedule, especially if you're traveling for work, things starting at eight or nine or whatever it's supposed to start. And then probably you have a team dinner immediately after you wrap up the day. And then probably there is no time even to think about going for a run. So as you mentioned, are probably not in the mix unless you dedicatedly... carved out the time that you had to go out. So the only time you left is the morning that you got to plan it out. And that also you mentioned if you're not familiar with the area, what do you do? And I found myself quite a few occasions the same shoes like, is it safe or am I be running in this spot? And now I'm sure a lot of people find it. But I was just curious before you come up with the idea of go running tours, Was it always your preference that I want to the city running or it was other ways you wanted to explore the city?

Lena - Go! Running Tours: always been sort of the way I explore city has always been a little bit I wouldn't say chance but it's very much sort of just I like to be somehow directed by the city or sort of like I don't it's very rare that I sort of have okay I'm gonna go here I'm gonna go here there's of course some things you want to see but a lot of times I really just want to be sort of how do you say it I really want to

Kamal Datta: Okay.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: sort of let the city guide me. So if I see something nice, start off and then I just sort of go and I explore. And so that's really how I like to see a city, which sometimes means that you end up walking forever, not really seeing anything. And other times you end up having these incredible encounters with people or with neighborhoods and with markets. Yeah. So I've always been sort of a little bit sort of, wouldn't say chance.

Kamal Datta: okay.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: But I'd like to be seduced by Cyddi. I guess that's the best way to do it. You to say it.

Kamal Datta: tonight. Yeah. Great, that's good to know. Thank you for sharing. So now you have the idea that there's a better way to export the CD and you conceptualize that I should do something about it and here comes Go Running Tours. So if you want to take us through the journey of, okay, I have this idea now, how do I actually make it real?

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Yeah, so basically, was, you know, looking back now, was, I'm just thinking, what was I thinking? But basically, I went back and then I quit my job and I started doing the tours just in Copenhagen. I didn't have a big master business plan or anything. I was just a bit like, hey, this would be super fun. I've done this other stuff. And I went home to my wife where we weren't married at the time and said, hey, I have this idea. What do you think about it? And she was very much like, you should definitely do it. So that's really sort of how it started. So I started doing just the tours in Copenhagen. And then it was very clear that people... who ran with me in Copenhagen, they wouldn't sort of come back to Copenhagen. Then they would be off to a different city running and so sort of traveling and a lot times they would write and say hey do you know anyone in Chicago? Do you know anyone in Sao Paulo? So there was really sort of, I could feel there was this demand that when people really had this way of exploring a city or running when they traveled, then they would do it again and again and again. So that's really how It started with the fact that okay, there's a potential here and then go running to a starter and then Yeah, I would say the rest is history because it sounds so simple But that's really sort of sort of how it started there was different business models when we just started but now it's sort of It's it's it's it's started. I don't know if you want me to explain more come out, but I can explain that

Kamal Datta: Okay. Then I had to definitely go in details of all the different models. Or I think you have very interesting and fascinating model that you operate in. I definitely want to learn and also share with our audience as well. But I want to go back to Copenhagen when you started. So were you part of a running group that your group of folks used to be or part of a running club that you're already running or you started? Because that's where I think most of the time the what do call zero to one kind of what, okay, you had an idea and then you a group of folks. How do you make myself say, is something we can do together. You can explore a city to running. Like how did it actually take root? I was trying to get to that in Copenhagen.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: So I basically just started. The challenge is a little bit when you travel so much and I've worked so much. a little bit before I started working for Maersk, I lived in the UK and in France as well, where I also worked a lot and traveled a lot. So I wasn't really part of any running of any running groups. So I basically came home and I just started, just me. doing the tours, setting it up, having all these meetings. But now when I say I did the tours to begin with, but really to begin with, there was no tours. No one had an idea that this existed. And I met with, actually this is interesting, I met first, I had a meeting with the Danish Tourist Organization and they were like, yeah, yeah, that's great. In order to make this work, you have to say that people can just turn up on...

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: you know, every morning or three times a week. So every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday morning at, I think it was nine o'clock, I was standing by the Hans Christian Anderson statue by the city hall in Copenhagen because they said, that's how you do it. And I didn't know better. So I was like, okay, they know what they're doing. And no one turned up and I stood a week after week in the rain and then just waiting every time at nine o'clock. And no one came. it really, in the beginning, all my time was spent on business development, on building the website, on all of these things. And then little by little by little, it started sort of, it started, it started working.

Kamal Datta: So you did not have like people are signing up like today you do more organized way and those times you just had, hey, I'm doing a group run and if you show up, that's great. And then we'll go for a run. Okay. Wow.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Well, I still had the website. So I built the website, we had the booking and so on. So all the mechanics was there, but really that was no one knew it existed. No one knew that running tours existed. So that was really sort of the biggest challenge. And then actually, I'll tell you this, come on. So my very first guests and after two months, then suddenly this lady comes walking towards me and I'm like, my God, I have a guest.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: And then we run and then we come to payment and then she was like, actually I didn't bring any I didn't I didn't really have any money. I know it's this is the price, but I didn't really have any money. So too bad So and I can't remember whether she didn't have enough or she didn't have any it doesn't matter, but I just remember that situation of how ironic it was that finally I had my first guest and then it didn't quite work out. Anyway, but was a great run and it was fun to finally try and guide everyone into it.

Kamal Datta: Oh wow. So you're talking about Copenhagen and I think, I don't know, this is probably before the trip advisors of the world had become more popular. I guess if you want to take it back in terms of what timeframe you're looking at is 10, 15 years ago.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: I started the tour in Copenhagen in 2011.

Kamal Datta: 2011, okay. Yeah, it's interesting. Now, from the one person showing up without any revenue to when you actually say, that I have some route to this idea, like what was the journey? So one person to say, hey, I got another group of folks who actually paid for it and... kind of good feedback that they enjoyed it before you thought, okay I proved my idea that this is something it can take root.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: So it starts little by little, it started to sort of work. what was really interesting as well was suddenly I would have these guests who was from a small city, I think in Canada.

Kamal Datta: show.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: an elderly couple and we ran and they came back and to when we finished and they were like, oh, this was great. We'll remind, we'll recommend you to our entire running group in this very small city in Canada. And I remember thinking that's great. And then I remember thinking, you know, a small running group of 30 people in a small city in Canada, that's probably going to be a while before anyone from this running club turns up. And then I think it was two months later. someone stood there and said, actually it was because this couple ran with you that they are, that they are, that, that, we're here. And I was like, okay. And this is a great thing about runners as well is that of course, now we have social media, we have Strava, everything goes on social media. But really in 2011, everyone was in running clubs and running communities and they were just chatting and recommending and, and.

Kamal Datta: guys. Yes. Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: sort of being curious. So that's really sort of how it slowly started to build. Also TripAdvisor was different now. TripAdvisor is of course a big sort of OTA in terms of selling tours and so on. But in those days, it was just a site for recommendations. So a lot of travelers would go in and they would recommend go running. At that time it was called Running Copenhagen, would recommend it on

Kamal Datta: Right.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: TripAdvisor, which got a lot of traffic. So that was also a source of guests at that time.

Kamal Datta: So that's exciting. Now, if you're going to take us back where you are now and then model the different business model, because I think I'm very fascinated with the model you have. So it would be great if you're going to expand on a little bit how it is working today from that state from one person showing up to where you are.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think actually this is really something that I really want to share because sometimes when people look at the company, think, well done, know, and people might think, okay, we had this figured out from the beginning, you know, we just nailed it. And that's just not the case. We've tried so many different things. There's been so many ups and downs. So it's been a little bit of a journey. The first way Go running tour started was really as a platform. was, we invited sort of all the people actually from different sites, from TripAdvisor, from just around the world. There was all these independent running tour providers. So basically, send out emails, hey, we building this platform. So it was just supposed to be a platform. This was when Airbnb was just starting and...

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: I was sort of thinking, if they can do it, we can do it, right? So it was just a platform thought. So that was the first and we managed, think, probably to get 20 people on it and then maybe a little bit more. I can't remember, actually. And then little by little, we had more and people joining. that gave that that was a problem in two ways. One was that The first one was sort of, didn't really have any control of the, actual running to experience, which meant that one person in... let's say Kuala Lumpur might be doing a running tour, which is just picking someone up, running, bringing them back, while others in, let's say Florence, would take a running tour and it would be a two-hour, 5k with long stops and so on. So there's too much variation in the actual experience, which meant that I could see that when people really, really had a good time, then they would book again or they would come back and when they didn't,

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: We'd never see those guests again. So that gave some problems. then also there's also this fact that the idea was still to have, how can I say this, to sort of have a best practice, to have a small community of all these running guys, all these companies that would share best practice, that would...

Kamal Datta: I see.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: support each other and celebrate each other. And the challenge was a little bit that even though there was a forum, no one really shared anything and people saw each other a little bit as competitors, especially if there was more than one provider in one city. So that didn't really work.

Kamal Datta: I see. I see.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: We also didn't really have enough sort of you could say, okay, if one to a provider does a really good job, the other one doesn't do a good job, you know, the reviews would sort of even it out, as you can see in Airbnb, but there wasn't really that much volume. So then the business model changed and we started recruiting our own guides, which Basically men and we would say it would model on a franchise model really saying okay You're the city manager in this city You're the city manager in this city and just recruited one person in each city that would really manage this city and The whole thought was that they would do business development that would Speak to the local races. They would do sort of local activities

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: And that worked in some destinations and other destinations, or many of them didn't really work because really people just wanted to run. They didn't want to make PowerPoint presentations and go out and meet with companies or meet with hotels. They basically just wanted to run, meet people from around the world, show their city.

Kamal Datta: Right.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: It was very difficult to sort of get that to work. Also in a sort of... To be honest, you want to build a business, or at least I want to build a business where people are excited. And so it shouldn't be like, I can't be bothered, right? So we then changed it again and then changed it to sort of what we call would be lead guides. So we just have guides. All they do in the cities is to guide the tourists.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: And that's it. All the business development is now centralized. We have more than one person in each city, which also from a strategic perspective also makes us of course less vulnerable. But also we have more capacity, we have more flexibility. And there's also the aspect of it that... these guys really get along. So they actually think it's pretty nice that there's someone else as well doing the same tour and they cover for each other. So that's really the journey of the company. then while we've been changing, of course, we've been adding destinations as well.

Kamal Datta: So in the current model you have, so the admin part, which probably runners did not enjoy much. See, it's a separate role that someone else plays and the guide is primarily one who is working with the folks who want to go for a run in the city that are actually signing up. So there are two different roles that have been separated out.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Yeah, so we have sort of the central operational team here. have sales, we have marketing and, and, and they sit sort of centrally and then we just have the guides and all they do is do the runs. If we have corporate tours, so big, big events where it's a hundred, 200 people, then of course they get involved because of the management of it. So this morning I just saw pictures that were out in Rome with a Chinese company. I think also in. In Singapore, they were out this morning. So here the team, the lead guide then are out with more people and it's a bigger group. So there's a little bit more management, but it's still just focused on the actual running.

Kamal Datta: Right. fascinating. And then the tour guides on the local places like you talked about Rome and Singapore. Are they still in the franchise model you are referring to the past or it is a different model now you have?

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Yeah, so now, well, they're still recruited by us. They, of course, do the tours for us. So that's It's not really a franchise because they don't really own sort of the city anymore. So they just get paid per run. So that's how it works.

Kamal Datta: I see. Right. okay, okay, cool. That is fascinating. And then one thing I'm curious about, so you walked through the evolution, how you arrived into the current model. And then in parallel, I'm sure you have seen enough shift in the running industry as such, right? I'm just curious, 2011 through now 15 years, what is your take on how has the running industry has evolved, or the running culture process evolved that you have seen building Go Running tours?

Lena - Go! Running Tours: I think it's well, it's grown massively, right? It's so many people run. It's incredible. think it's, of course COVID, I think actually was a big accelerator, but at the same time, especially the younger generation, it's, it's, you know, there's all these communities, but it's not just running communities. Then it's like for a super hip clothes brand or a taco shop or a local coffee shop. There's so many sort of,

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: The whole running culture and whole running community has just exploded and just sort of reaching. There's so many more people doing it and so many, especially the younger generation, I really, really enjoy seeing that growing and that's growing massively. It's great. It's really amazing.

Kamal Datta: That's good to know. Now let's double click on this tour guide, the experience itself, right? I think I call it this, the discussion that's called the art of the site run. People often think running tour is just a workout. Probably a lot of people may think, but I think you probably are training your guides to balance the historical storytelling with the physical pace of a runner. I'm just curious, how do you balance it out? It is more towards if I am say Kamal wants to visit Copenhagen tomorrow and I'm signing up for or I'm looking to go for a you know run with Go running tours also experience the city. How do you have your tour that the guides lead guys actually balance out the the tourist part tourism part as well as the physical activity part because it's I think it's a delicate balance

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Yeah, and it's one that we sort of... It's really a matter of meeting expectations and actually to that point two years ago We developed a whole new product called just run to us because we realized a lot of people actually weren't that much into the stubborn getting pictures hearing about the history, but they really wanted Amazing runs when they were in the city, right and a lot of people came and they were training from four majors I mean you just ran a major camera, you know If you travel you stand in the city and suddenly you have to clock 23 kilometers. What do you do, right?

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: So we introduced a just run to us, which is basically where we just run. still talk about the city, but it's minimal stopping as much as a city. mean, we're still in the city, right? It's minimal stopping. And then we sort of still make sure it's a great route, but we sort of focus on the running part. And here we also ask a little bit more, you know, what pace are you looking for? without really saying, we might not be able to do that pace. But sometimes people run crazy fast. But also, you know, running a 430-minute kilometer is a little bit difficult, at least in Copenhagen during rush hour. So there's some natural sort of limitations. And then we have our sight running to us, which is the sightseeing where people really get to explore the city.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: But more than anything, sort of usually just when we meet people, we say, okay, if it's a Just Run tour, we would say normally we don't stop, let us know if you would like to stop or we want to take pictures. And the opposite, if people have booked a sightseeing run, then we say, hey, we stop along the way. If it's too fast, if it's too slow, if you just want to skip some stops, then let us know. So we try as much as possible to sort of establish the expectations to begin with. And then also with time, you also get a pretty good feeling. Okay, are these people actually super interested in what you're saying or they just start of standing, jumping on the spot to get going on their run, right? So you also, there's also some, you know, some personal feeling with it.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. So the guide themselves probably are assessing as they are into the tour itself probably like what would be the best course of action? Either I tell the whole story or just move on. Okay, that's pretty cool. Based on the feedback probably you get and probably you have a ton by now. What do you think in the world of GPS or the Strava's? Why would someone still want to have a guided run? What you're seeing from a data or the feedback every single over the years.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: So I think there's a couple of aspects to it. think people still, when they travel, they actually really want to still meet a local. Someone who knows the city, who has the lifestyle and really can explain more about the city. I a lot of us, go on a weekend break somewhere and then...

Kamal Datta: Mmm.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: We enjoy the city, but really when we come back, we might not have spoken to anyone local other than the waiter or the concierge because we go to restaurant, then we go here, we go here, but we don't really interact with people. So this is a super unique chance to actually speak to a local and for an hour and half and also someone that you actually share passion with, right? Which makes this... instant, makes this instant connection. So that's the first thing is sort of the human aspect. And the second one is for many people, it's still safety. It's you're in a new city. You don't know where to run, you don't know where you shouldn't run. And even in Copenhagen, which many people, including myself, consider a fairly safe city, we still have people booking. to us simply from a safety aspect. I don't think it's because they expect sort of people to attack them halfway through the run, but it's simply to feel safe when they run. And then of course the convenience. So even though we can have it on our watch and we can have it on our phone, we still have to look and we still have to think about it and so on. But when you have a local guide, you basically don't have to think about it.

Kamal Datta: Right, right. Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: anything. They pick you up from the reception, they guide you on these incredible runs, they talk to you, they show you all these hidden gems, tell you here's the best coffee, this is the pastry to get, this is the meat to get here, and they bring you back. So it's also sort of this sort of convenience of it as well.

Kamal Datta: Now, as you operate in multiple countries and 70 countries, I think I mentioned earlier, so is there a process you go through for the safety aspect of things to make sure that, you know, it is, I don't know if you have to work with local authorities or something for each country or each city that you are in.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: No, we don't work with the local authorities, we do, unless we have some very big events. But when we train the guides, we really sort of reinforce the type of tours that we would like to do and the type of routes they should create and also the considerations that they should take. So we do have some...

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. I see.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: I remember sitting with one guide and we were trying to figure out a route. And I said, well, why can't we go here? There's a green area here and this looks like a nice run here. And the guy goes, that's a total no-go. There's no way we should be going in that area. So the local runners also know this is where we should be running and this is where we shouldn't.

Kamal Datta: Okay.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: be running. that's part of the training is of course to make sure that the routes are in areas that are great for running, but also where we can feel comfortable.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. That makes sense because it's great that you are actually tapping into the local folks because they know instead of you figuring out what would be the best route, which makes total sense. Now with this, we talked about majors and the world marathon majors and the massive races. Now you have the super halves in Europe, right? I think we have the series now got announced a couple of weeks ago or a month ago. I was wondering how is Go... running tours is evolving because I don't know if you have a special tours for those big weekends because there are people coming in. Runners are probably going to run the race, but there are people supporting them also may be looking for ways to export the city. Maybe this is an option. Go running tours is also supporting those big massive weekends.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Yeah, yeah. And we support in different ways. So sometimes we have group runs that people can just book themselves on. So that would be a 5K ShakeOut run. We also do the running tours as the ShakeOut runs for, for example, the the Avid World Marathon majors Go Club members. So They have a special ShakeOut run, these Go Club members, and then also we work with hotels, so some hotels of course, mean, know, Kamel, I'm sure your hotel in London, when you ran just a few weeks ago, was full of people in running clothes and running shoes. So many of these hotels are also looking to provide sort of more of a running experience during those weekends. So we also work with hotels where they sort of ask how can we make sort of a fuller experience

Kamal Datta: Yep.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: for these runners that come in.

Kamal Datta: That makes sense. Yeah, I have seen quite a few folks in the hotels and pretty much, as you can imagine, London. And all the hotels in London probably have the similar situation too. they're all. plenty of ShakeOut runs and pretty much everyone or different organizers for different ones. And I know that the Gold Club has won too. So I was, I did not join that, but I know that folks who joined the Gold Club ShakeOut runs. So I'm glad to know that, and you are also being part of that as well.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Yeah. you, Kamala, you part of the Go Club?

Kamal Datta: I am not, but this is for the ninth one, for the next three one, I'm actually considering it because I know quite a few folks who are, and there are a lot of parks that they enjoy. So I'm pretty seriously considering it for the next three that I'm going to go for, the Sydney, the... the Beijing and the Cape Town becomes one. So, one the one. But I'll definitely be in touch when I'm part of that and then go for it. Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: I mean, I'm not a member, but I've worked with the team and I can only recommend it. They're great to work with. So I can't imagine that what they do other than of course the running tours, that it's not great. They're really super professional, just really kind.

Kamal Datta: That's great to hear. Thank you. Now, a bit of a parallel topic, Elena. This is more on the sustainability aspect of it. So, you know, I have a sustainability series and I'm exploring the sustainability aspect of running. If you want to think about that way, that travel is often criticized for its carbon footprint. I'm not about running, but travel in general. I'm just wondering how do you balance travel and the slow tourism movement that is out there, right? You know, I talked to a couple of folks like I only want to travel one race a year. Like they have some kind of goals because they want to be as sustainable runner as they want to. But I'm just wondering how do you balance that movement and how does it impact actually as a business if you want to think that way?

Lena - Go! Running Tours: So I think you're totally right. It's a little bit contradictory that we talk about running as being sustainable, but then people jump on a plane and we fly across the Atlantic or the Pacific to go for this sustainable run. So there's definitely a little bit of a clash there. I don't know.

Kamal Datta: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: in terms of how we balance it. I'd say that we make sure that when people are in the cities, then we of course offer an option that is sustainable. Last year we also made... sort of special tours that was actually part of a project here in Copenhagen called CopenhPay where people, was sort of where you give to the city and you get something for free. So people, we ran and then it was a free running tour and we ran and then people, would throw flower bombs or sort of seed bombs around the city. So their task was to sort of throw flower seeds all over the city where we were allowed because before all the, the environmentalists sort of started writing on this podcast and we were allowed and the seeds were sort of natural Danish type of flowers. So we do try and make these sort of tours that sort of fit in, sort of at least on the sustainability part.

Kamal Datta: I see. Mm-hmm.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: We also, whenever we have clothes that we print, least for special occasions where we as a company print them, it's sort of recycled polyester and... So we try and make a sort of a small step. do when we work with the larger conferences and the corporations, then of course we work with them also for them to meet their sustainability goals and their sustainability sort of, I think they call it, it's almost like an accounting, right? They keep track of all the carbon that they, all the carbon emissions. So here we work with the

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: conferences to see how can we fit in and make your event more sustainable compared to if they were on sightseeing buses or however they were seeing the city or what other activities there were.

Kamal Datta: actually, I see. Because it's a value proposition to start with, Instead of a tourist bus, you're running. So your footprint is already reduced, common footprint. I see. Now, you mentioned the corporate. Sorry. Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: But I will say, Kamal, we try not to say against this or against this because people have different preferences and you might see a person on a sightseeing bus but then they took the train to Copenhagen, whereas someone was on a running tour but then they flew right. So we try not to say this is better than this, we just say what we do, we feel is a good option.

Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see. Yeah. I see. Okay, that makes total sense because yeah, you do not know the mode before and after the tour. So that may offset the whole thing that probably you're looking at. Okay. You mentioned the corporate tour running a couple of times. I'm just curious, is it a recent trend that you have seen gaining momentum? Like more and more corporations are trying to have this experience?

Lena - Go! Running Tours: you Yes, definitely. And especially some industries, it's almost a given that there is some sort of well-being initiatives. Some conferences have quiet rooms for people who want to sort of calm down. Some people have yoga sessions. There's all these different well-being initiatives throughout many conferences now.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: So it's really something that's, I don't think it's a fad or trend. I think it's just something that's a requirement now that there's some wellbeing activities, part of conferences, or at least in some industries. There's still some industries where that might not be the norm. And if I mentioned, hey, why don't you do a running tour in the morning? They'd be like, what? But for many industries, big conferences, definitely wellbeing is an expectation now.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. I see, I see. And then you are saying that the Go Running Tours is part of those, some of the experiences that you're already tapping into.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Yes, for example, I can give the example this morning in Rome. It's a Chinese company that had an event in Rome and they started their morning with a running and a brisk walking. We also do brisk walking. At seven o'clock in the morning, they all come down and then even the CEO is out running.

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: And they run and they see the city or the brisk walk. They come back for eight o'clock. There's time for breakfast and then nine o'clock and so that kicks off. there's a wellbeing element to it. There's of course the sustainability we just spoke about, also for, especially if it's an internal event for a company, networking, but also for conferences where it's all random people, networking is a big thing. The whole point of many of these events is to really

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: facilitate new connections, the networking. And here, these, our tools are actually pretty magic at doing that and facilitating these conversations that doesn't exactly have to be work-related, but somehow you connect with people and then you pick up later on at the conference or at the event, and then you can speak more work-related. It works really well on the networking part as well.

Kamal Datta: That is so true, good to know. I don't know if you noticed on the news, President Macron was running with Kipchoge in Nairobi. I noticed all over the news and I saw social media too. So there Kipchoge and President Macron went for a run. It sounds like a, I don't know if it was in the morning run, probably it was in the morning run too. So it was fun to watch as well.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: No! That's fantastic. Mm-hmm.

Kamal Datta: So I don't know if it's part of the corporate program, but it's something sounds familiar that hey you want to go for a run before you actually go with the business of the day and it's a very healthy habit as well. Yeah Alright, let's move to our rapid fire round. So I'll have a couple of questions and whatever comes to your mind. It doesn't have to be like well thought through. So I'll leave it up to you. You are in 70 plus.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Alright, the pressure's on Kamau.

Kamal Datta: So you are in 70 plus cities. So which is your favorite city to run besides Copenhagen?

Lena - Go! Running Tours: I haven't visited more Venice. It was amazing.

Kamal Datta: Any top reasons? I don't know how to compare with other cities but for you.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Yeah, it's because... Yeah, I think it's because as I mentioned, I haven't been to all, so now all my colleagues might listen to this and then this one again, I'm sad that I didn't mention their cities. I haven't been to all their cities, but when I ran in Venice, I have no doubt that I would have gotten majorly lost trying to do a...

Kamal Datta: Hahaha!

Lena - Go! Running Tours: 10K there also because the GPS doesn't, your phone doesn't work or at least mine didn't. So it would just have been a little bit of an odd run. I was also there with my two kids. think they were, I think my youngest was probably five at the time and my oldest was seven. So we ran a fair five K and experiencing that really early morning with my colleagues running these small streets. And it was just incredible. It was really magic.

Kamal Datta: Morning Bird or Night Owl Runner

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Morning bird.

Kamal Datta: Okay, I think we have given enough justification how it works out for especially if you're traveling for business. Next one, the bucket list CD you haven't added to the network yet.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Let's say Beijing.

Kamal Datta: wow. It is not on the 70th series yet, you're saying? It is not on the list yet.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: No, we're in Shanghai. No, but we are not in Beijing. That's a city I would really like to have on our list.

Kamal Datta: All right, I'm hoping it is coming to your list soon then. If you are, this is on your bucket list, I would guess. So that was the three simple questions on the rapid fire round, Lena. I want to finish off with kind of thinking ahead. Where do you think the industry is heading, especially the intersection of running and travel?

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Mm-hmm.

Kamal Datta: maybe five, 10 year horizon that you are thinking as, or as leading go-running tours that you are seeing the strengths of the data points that think that the industry is heading that direction.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: So think it's going to continue growing. just saw actually today that, for example, the Copenhagen Marathon introduced ballot as well. Normally you could just sign up and you would be sort of in or they would close whenever there was all that. So now they have the ballot as well. I think there's going to come, so it's going to keep growing. I have this theory. What I think is going to happen is that a lot of people...

Kamal Datta: Okay.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: I think when they start running, do all the half marathons, the big ones, then the majors, and there's this natural sort of evolution. I think at some point people come to a point where like... Actually, I would like some different experiences from running. mean running to us could of course be one option, but running a super local race in let's say Singapore or in Zambia where you just run with locals and you're the only one who are not a local runner and you might end up with the you know, some neighbors Tart or something like this, you know having special delicacies. I think something like this that's gonna grow. I think people are So that they go through, all the big races, the feeling, the amazingness of it. And then I think it's going to move over to where people are really looking for something a little bit more easygoing. It doesn't matter whether the timing might not be perfect and you might have to jump a few rocks on your way on the 5K or 10K. I think it's the experience that's going to count. And then I also think that many of the... the bigger races, they have that one event a year that is their main event, but now they also have all these smaller races and I think they're also looking to, I don't know, but I could imagine that... many of the big races are also looking to how can we engage the community all through the year and not just in our city. How can we be meaningful to the people who, let's say, follow Chicago Marathon, I want to run the Chicago Marathon, I ran it 10 years ago. How can we still be relevant to these people? How can we still be part of their running journey?

Kamal Datta: Right. I totally see that probably as you laid out, probably it's happening or going to happen for sure. Lena, where can our listeners find their next guide for their, maybe it's their upcoming summer trip?

Lena - Go! Running Tours: So it's very easy. They go to www.gorunningtours.com and then they choose a city, they book and then within 24 hours they have an email from one of my colleagues saying, can't wait to run with you. See you at your hotel at the time that they chose. And that's it.

Kamal Datta: All right, Lena, thank you so much for showing us that the best way to find the heart of a CD is to lace up and run through it. And you being part of it, I think it has been fabulous. So thank you so much.

Lena - Go! Running Tours: Thank you. And thank you, Kamel for inviting me on the podcast and putting the company and me in such great light. So thank you for that.