The Visionary: Michael Nishi: Architecting the Marathon of 2077

Kamal Datta: Welcome everyone to What Runs A Run podcast. most people think a marathon is a sporting event. But if you talk to today's guest, he might tell you that it's actually a temporary city. 50,000 residents. 1.5 million tourists and the logistics network that rival a military operation, all built and dismantled in 24 hours. Today on What Runs A Run episode, we are going behind the curtain with Mike Nishi, who builds the machinery. He's the chief operating officer and partner at Chicago Event Management. He is a leader at the National Center for Spectral Sports and Safety and Security. And frankly, he's the guy other race directors will call when they want to know how the future of this industry looks. So Mike, welcome to the show.

Mike Nishi: Well, thanks, Kamal. I appreciate being here and the opportunity to connect like this. So really appreciate this time and being able to record a podcast episode and hopefully be able to connect and share some of our conversation and thoughts with our industry friends.

Kamal Datta: I'm looking forward to it, Mike. So let's start with, I call it the 2077 mindset. So Mike, you have said recently that stopped me actually on my tracks, that you said you aren't planning for next year, you are planning for 2077. To the race director out there who are struggling to get their permit for the next month, that sounds like a science fiction. Now, What does a 50-year revision actually change about the decisions you make on say, Tuesday morning in the office?

Mike Nishi: I appreciate that and I got to really thank our friend and I think you know him as well, Chris Robb of Mass Participation World and putting together that 50-year vision as well and we're all contributing in ⁓ of what that might look like ⁓ I do feel that these big audacious goals are extremely important whether it's for the health of a company, the health of our events or for the sport and industry as a whole. As we start looking at the way that we plan events, I think it's really important that we start having that long view in terms of how we plan and strategize beyond this one given year or into next year. ⁓ do feel that sometimes we're so limited and a lot of that has to deal with ⁓ resources and the scale and scope of our events ⁓ companies that drive the events. We're fortunate to have a relatively ⁓ group of individuals, full-time team members that keep pushing our agenda and keep building these events at the scale and level that we do. still, it's like ⁓ terms of like other industry, we're relatively small. And you can imagine with other races and other event organizers, they're ⁓ also a lot smaller. ⁓ sometimes we get caught in terms of the production and what has to be done here and now, which is absolutely understandable. ⁓ we also have to have a certain strategic thinking and an opportunity to look a little bit further or not even little, but a lot further down the road. Whether we achieve some of these goals, I think the objective is to set some of these audacious targets so we can continue to challenge ourselves, challenge our teams, and again, challenge our industry to come together. Because we really can't do this alone in a vacuum. It really takes all of us working together to hopefully lift and like I always like to say, a rising tide lifts all boats. And again, we need to come together to think that way to challenge our teams and our industry to grow and be respected as an industry like so many industries out there are.

Kamal Datta: That's good too. understand and for sure because I think we're going to talk a lot because you're doing some amazing things in terms of I call it open source being a technology world. have open source lot of your operations secrets to anyone who wants to borrow it. So I'm going to dig that little bit into that as well. How do you actually balance the legacy of Chicago Marathon with the need to be a disruptor in your own house? Because when you're looking at 2077, and you're trying to a way to disrupt yourself, I would guess, right?

Mike Nishi: That's a great question. are those things that challenge us? I feel it's like who we are as an organization at Chicago Event Management. ⁓ Truly, I we're all driven by ⁓ the that we want to make on our communities ⁓ and ⁓ apply in terms of how we work on that and everyone sees that in their work and then obviously their work is carried out through the different events. ⁓ whether it's impact in a different community is like getting people to move, getting people healthier, getting seniors moving as well. And I think there's a great disparity in terms of life expectancy from people on the West side to the people downtown and where we are currently. Like we're our offices, which is somewhat close to our start finish line of our marathon. But even five miles away, the discrepancy in terms of ⁓ life expectancy is like 15 to 20 years and that's not far and I do feel that the type of impact we want to make through our events is like how do we get people moving, how do we get people healthier and I think we all understand the benefits that it has on society, has on our communities when people are healthier, more productive, it's less cost, it's going into healthcare, more productive at work so there's so many advantages and I truly feel The work that we're doing through our events has a great impact, a positive impact in terms of the community. I think that really drives us in terms of difference we can make and truly in terms of every single person in our organization ⁓ a role in that. So I think when people recognize that and that's something that we inculcate based on ⁓ mission, vision and purpose here at CEM that

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: I think people get excited around our aligned and really push that initiative and carry initiatives through their work.

Kamal Datta: One thing I'm curious, when you think about an event like Chicago as an urban infrastructure, how does someone actually visualize, if you want to say layout, what does it mean like an urban infrastructure, a moving city?

Mike Nishi: Oh, man. Again, I think it's when you have the opportunity. first and foremost, of course, we have a grand plan and we have a vision in terms of what these events can be and how do you fit 26.2 miles within a big urban setting like Chicago. Of course, we have grand plans in terms of what that might look like and the ideal route, ideal start finish, infrastructure needs, the space that's required, especially based on the

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Mike Nishi: the field size that we're so fortunate to have for the marathon. But it truly starts, ⁓ know, first and foremost with the partnerships you have ⁓ your city agencies, the authorities. And ⁓ without type of support, you know, we really couldn't be, ⁓ we be at the size we are or continue to grow ⁓ at level that we do year over year over year. And so it always comes down to relationships, whether it's the relationships with this city of Chicago itself, with the Park District, within the city, you know, those are all relationships that are really, really important and working with them. So we're not just trying to grow for the sake of growing the size of our events, but growing and always ⁓ sure that our partners understand is like what our goals objectives are ⁓ what we try to accomplish in terms of field size growth. Again, when they understand what we're trying to invest and invest in our communities and the impact we want to make and the impact on the lives for ⁓ so many of our constituents from our communities ⁓ understanding is like our approach and not just to grow ⁓ for numbers sake but really grow ⁓ terms of what we're trying to do and ⁓ the people that we're trying to reach an impact ⁓ well as like what we're doing ⁓ it's from the charity programs and the immediate and direct impact we have to all those nonprofit organizations, their awareness that we're building, know, that all does matter. I think with that trust and communication that we have with our city partners ⁓ us to create these grand plans and envision what that would be for events ⁓ ⁓ city as that kind of backdrop for the different stadiums and ⁓ events that we do create. So that kind of gives you an idea, but really it comes down to those relationships that we have. with so much of our city and stakeholders. ⁓ know, this grand vision really couldn't come to life without their help and support.

Kamal Datta: Mike, in 30 years of Chicago, and you have seen it all, it grew it from couple of thousand to 50,000 plus and one of the biggest world marathon Was there a point when this transition happened in your own execution point of view or you envisioned to start with that? Yeah, we'll end up probably where we are and beyond.

Mike Nishi: Yeah, I think we've always had grand ⁓ visions and thoughts and ideas in terms of what the Chicago Marathon could be really started to focus in on it. ⁓ again, like you mentioned, when we started, Pinkowski, the executive race director myself, way back when, back in 1989, ⁓ race was foundering back then ⁓ a lot of limited resources that we didn't have. But we knew that the potential of the event and what it meant. We knew it was going to take a long time and really focusing in and did a different approach in terms of, let's see if we can control the experience of what happens in between the curbs to the runners. Let's see if we can make an impact and really work with the communities to get their involvement, get their support, get their buy-in and not just be like, oh, here's the marathon and it's a disruptor, but here's the marathon. It's like, how can we get involved? and then really working on the volunteers that wanted to be part of this event. With that type of mindset and continuing to grow that approach year over year, but understanding that was one of the foundational elements is like, what can we do for the experience? excellence, ⁓ working with the community to get that buy-in and support and get them involved from a volunteer aspect, but also being part of this event that you know, this is truly their event, something that they have ownership in and something that we can all be proud in and proud of in terms of like showcasing our city, showcasing communities. So really that's that's ⁓ has been part of, you know, our strategy and building blocks. And, you know, ⁓ knew it was going to take a long time. And, ⁓ know, but ⁓ think as we continue to grow and those things were. ⁓

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: our key points of focus that we continue to grow year over year and improved, where we're able to build a lot of other things on those foundational elements. on that growth, ⁓ ⁓ we've achieved where we are, I truly feel, a lot faster than what we expected. So ⁓ it's really resetting in terms of ⁓ we can do at this point. There's always that growth where we want to be. year over year to like three to five years and we've really those a lot faster than we ever anticipated. ⁓ you know, it's really given us another opportunity. It's like reshifting that focus and ⁓ on other opportunities and areas of growth, ⁓ it's from the volunteer standpoint, whether it's like the growth of the charity program, getting more people to donate, the fundraise to give, you know, those are just ⁓ Opportunities that come with certain success enable us to really focus on other areas to really expand the event in corners or areas that we just hadn't been able to explore until now that we have more resources, that we are able to refocus strategy as well as some of our ⁓ knowing that we've achieved so many a lot quicker than we anticipated.

Kamal Datta: Great, thank you. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, that is definitely a key part of the execution too. ⁓ You referred operational ⁓ and I think reminds me to ⁓ ask you this specific one which very important for any ⁓ race organizers the safety aspects of whole event. You are a major voice ⁓ NCS4. When you talk about what runs around, we have to talk about the forward command. So, ⁓ race morning, when the world is looking at the elite athletes on the TV, you are looking at wall of monitors. If you may, can you walk us through the war room setup and the three most critical data points that probably you're looking at, that nothing to do with the stopwatch.

Mike Nishi: Well, we're all watching the things, but definitely a lot more data coming into that ⁓ central nerve center that we create. Again, there's many different terms that we have as forward operating base, forward command, event operation center. No matter what you call it, it's ⁓ so critical have that, and it is scalable. you know several people just a handful of people around a table with communication with radio with all the plans and information that goes into the production of the event ⁓ to the scale of what we produce here in chicago where new york does what boston does in terms of like the the nerve center and all the different technology all the different partners that have a seat at the table the most important is obviously collecting in and providing as much information that you have ⁓ access to within that facility, and as well as ensuring that you have the right people gathered around the table working out of that venue that are decision makers. So if something critical were to come up, you need to definitely have the individuals there that can make that call, that can make the decision based on the different organization that they're representing. as you build out your event operations center or forward command as we call it, it is our nerve center. We're bringing in as much information that we possibly can, as well as our city partners or our private company, ⁓ communication teams as well. So we're trying to provide ⁓ much information as we possibly can collect. And same with our partners. So we're sharing a lot of information. We're sharing data. We're sharing communication.

Kamal Datta: See.

Mike Nishi: then having those decision makers available to answer questions to go to in the event of if there's a specific solution that needs to be solved, ⁓ obviously we're there to share that information. We're all there to help come up with that solution. ⁓ know, our goal is create that common operating picture that we can paint and that we can create so everyone has ⁓ access to this. ⁓ ⁓ consistent information that's required in order for them to make the proper decision. So again, that's key point of what a forward command and an event operation center ⁓ built for. And whether you have the resources or the dispatch teams, ⁓ cameras, the data, you to pull in as much possible information to inform ⁓ that that's there.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: to really make the difficult or challenging decisions, whether it's something as simple as running out of materials or supplies for portable toilets to a complete evacuation of an event site or the course. So you can imagine the scale on what you're trying to accomplish by bringing in a lot of the leaders from your event, leaders from your city, all gathered in one place together. So that's how we use our space.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. That's great. So in this regard, I hope you have some insight. The last year's Cape Town marathon was called off, I think, the day ⁓ the race in the morning, right? ⁓ I think you mentioned or you talk about the psychology of the stop race call. I would be curious how that would play out on the race day morning if you're in the fourth command or a command of ⁓ a bigger race. kind of the data point you look at to make that level of decision.

Mike Nishi: Yeah, I can't speak to what Cape Town went into making that decision. However, I do appreciate that they did have a plan that they followed in order to make a difficult call like that. ⁓ in a similar process, that's something that we would put It's not just something that an event of any size would take lightly, but it's all based on the different plans you put together ⁓ and exercise those plans.

Kamal Datta: you you

Mike Nishi: You go through them with your stakeholders, whether you're doing them internally or bringing other partners in. And you do have these tabletop exercises. You go through your plans, your incident action plan, your emergency operation plan, and you bring them together and you go through these different scenarios, whether it's weather related, whether it's things beyond your control. And you see how the different resources would be required, what type of decisions individuals will make. And you learn a lot through those exercises. again, if it were something like that, we are following. It's like, OK, here are the different conditions. Here's what we're looking at. Here's what we would do if it's like a weather. terms of like yesterday, we had thunderstorms. So we work with a meteorology team that's giving us this data that's like we're expecting these types of conditions. We do have a plan for wind. We do have a plan for lightning. that based on X number of miles out that you see this type of weather approaching, we know that we'd have about this much time to be able to react. And we have all this information. It's like we have these plans. We have this playbook. Now it's time to implement them or make the right call. And we know what to do in the event that certain situations come up. We don't have a document that has every single type of incident listed.

Kamal Datta: See you share.

Mike Nishi: However, when you go through these different types of scenario planning, when you go through the development of these plans, there's so many pieces that you understand, like how to react to, that you know that you're going to have to do a communication, do call-outs on radios, do mass communication via text alerts to participants, to volunteers, that you have all these pieces that you've exercised. you haven't had to implement a lot of them. But a lot of these things that we have done, you've implemented part of these pieces. that you know and you feel confident that when you execute these plans that you can do them effectively.

Kamal Datta: Are these tabletop exercises like our real life simulation or to what extent are they real that you referred?

Mike Nishi: Well, it depends on the type of resources and the type of training that you can go through. There are definitely drills that you have, or we've set that up with like out in a parking lot. You set up this mock stop and hold that we have at aid stations and have your aid station captains out there. And you go through in terms of doing commands and trying to do set up with the equipment and materials. that takes a lot of resources and time and understanding are they as prepared.

Kamal Datta: I see. Mm-hmm. See Right.

Mike Nishi: execute against a plan like internally, you go through typically a lot more of the tabletop workshops where you have the plan, you sit around with key leads in this scenario, ⁓ would you do for fire? What would you do for police? What would you do in medical? ⁓ would you do operationally? And then you work through those. that been very effective because you can do them. It's a lot more practical and cost effective to do that because then

Kamal Datta: Thank

Mike Nishi: A lot of the different teams can run these different workshops. Like, for example, a start finish line dispatch team can then focus on, the event of high winds, what would that team do and who would they communicate? Then deal with the finish line in the event that the high winds created different failures and things blowing over. What would that team do? Obviously, they have different plans and maybe the post-race party, then maybe something on course.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: So the workshops are very effective, but there is sometimes the need to do something at a scale of a drill so you can record them and then really study them and share them, whether it's to our industry friends or internally or to other stakeholders, like here are some of the things that we saw, here's some of the gaps that were created, how do we all work to come up with those common solutions or solutions ⁓ we can share and learn from ⁓ exercise.

Kamal Datta: You know, I was talking to Dave McAlevery and I think Ted of Metellus of Boston and New York. they refer to the challenge start and finish line in two different locations. Like, especially Boston you start with one weather, by the time you finish line, it's completely different weather. having those kind ⁓ top exercises is challenging. ⁓ And I don't know, know we'll talk a little bit more, but ⁓ have you seen that? Chicago has a great advantage of start and end in Grand Park. So you probably don't have to simulate or table top exercise those. seen this kind of scenario played out in Chicago or a playbook.

Mike Nishi: Yeah, definitely. And even though that it might be more convenient having our start finish centrally located, it does create challenges as well in terms of compression it creates in terms of everyone descending to the start and finish area, ⁓ way that we release our starts in terms of it takes an hour and a half before our entire start lines cleared. By then, there's people like ⁓ majority of the people are on the course. You already have

Kamal Datta: Hmm.

Mike Nishi: ⁓ finishers coming in from the wheelchair race by the by the time the last runners exiting the park So, you know by the time you get things going, you know, you're shutting down grant grant park or start finishes located You have to move in all these individuals that are coming in resetting everything and then allowing spectators the venue to meet and greet their family and friends, but at the same time ⁓ this finish line set up ready to go so

Kamal Datta: Mmm.

Mike Nishi: If you can imagine if any one thing doesn't go correct or properly, you could shut down the access to Grant Park that might have a critical impact in terms of how do participants get to the start line? How family members get to where they need to go to meet and greet their individuals? ⁓ And they can't, then it just creates more complexity in terms of answering questions and concern people like getting ⁓ connected their individuals post-event. If something were to occur and we can't get to the finish line due to something that's occurring at the start, are different things that we have to table top that we have to exercise. ⁓ one hand, yes, it's more convenient. At another hand, there are certain things that would challenge us if one thing would happen at the start that would impact the finish and vice versa. So there's always something that you can exercise that you have to consider.

Kamal Datta: Mm.

Mike Nishi: A lot of people think it's like, is it challenging to think about the negative things that you'd have to have a plan for? It's like, no, think our teams really appreciate that because it makes you think of how plan for the worst case scenario. It's ⁓ far not having a plan ⁓ than hoping something is going to go well. ⁓ And when you do go through the exercise, you start to think of different opportunities and ideas as like, how can you improve this in the future? Other things that come out of this like, ⁓ did we think about this? It's like, this would be a cool activation as well. ⁓ so you start to see like other people come up with ⁓ creative ideas. ⁓ at the very end, you also build that confidence that they really understand. It's like in the event that something would occur, what would they do in that current situation or scenario, ⁓ well as them being able to lend a hand in different areas that they might not be affected. by a certain situation developing, but they would be able to step in and help support other team members by being able to go through those exercises, being able to come up with these challenges and what are those solutions that they're able to come up with, and they have that type of thinking that they can step into different situations and really help out and come up with those solutions where necessary.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Mike, listening to you, ⁓ challenge of start and finish at the same location has a ripple effect on each other, would you say that if you have a start and finish running two different locations is less challenging than having it in the same place?

Mike Nishi: Now, I can't say that it's less challenging. I think there are definitely advantages of having a start and finish centrally located. There's less resources or equipment needed. If you have a start line, finish line, two different places, you typically have staging areas, equipment, and staff that are distributed. A lot of the staff can go from start, not a lot, but some team members can go from the start, can help at the finish.

Kamal Datta: Right. Yeah.

Mike Nishi: Like gear check drop is in one location where you drop it, you pick it up. Infrastructure needs like for staging and everything else, can repurpose toilets as an example. ⁓ toilets you have at the start, you can repurpose use at the finish when you have different start and finish line venues. ⁓ basically have to have ⁓ different sets of like ⁓ I'll say, and enough to support individuals at the start as well as enough to support those same individuals at the finish. ⁓

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Yeah? That's right.

Mike Nishi: Definitely. There's ⁓ advantages and disadvantages, probably a lot more logistics advantages ⁓ having a start-finish ⁓ close proximity ⁓ shared resources, shared equipment, shared staffing. ⁓ then there's always challenges by having two things so close and nearby that can create different challenges in themselves, as everything that we just mentioned. But I think Logistically, there are a lot more challenges having starts and finishes far apart. And then it just is compounding the further you have the start and finish from each other.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. I see, I see. That makes sense. ⁓ Something to keep in mind when a race is looking out or planning out a race or starting a new race, a of the data points that you mentioned to consider too. Now, you the race management program called the RMP. In most industries, if you have a secret sauce for a world Major you lock it in a vault. You have chosen to open source your playbook. In most industries, Mike, if you have a secret sauce for a world Major lock it a vault. You have chosen to open source your playbook. Why is it the best interest of the Chicago Marathon for a small 5k in another state to have access to the same system that you're? Why is it the best interest of the Chicago Marathon for a small local 5k in another state to have access to the same system that you're?

Mike Nishi: my opinion, I don't believe in a secret sauce. Most what you see in these world class events was definitely learned from or borrowed from or built on something someone else had founded first. Again, I you just get different versions of it and of course over time it just continues to enhance ⁓ and get and better and better. my opinion, I don't believe in a secret sauce. Most what you see in these world class events was definitely learned from or borrowed from or built on something someone else had founded first. Again, I you just get different versions of it and of course over time it just continues to enhance ⁓ and get and better and better. to not share these plans, I think there's a detriment to the overall industry. And think we all, in my opinion, I believe it's our responsibility as industry leaders to be able to share what we do and how we do it. to not share these plans, I think there's a detriment to the overall industry. ⁓ I think we all, in my opinion, I believe it's our responsibility as industry leaders to be able to share what we do and how we do it. And the example I give is if someone had ⁓ a experience ⁓ running a ⁓ 5K it's their first race and they're into the sport. and they just had a terrible experience. said, I'm never going to do that again. It doesn't help anyone. It doesn't help that race. It doesn't help our industry. It doesn't help other races. It doesn't help our partners if someone leaves the ecosystem. So again, I think just like I mentioned earlier, and I love the term in terms of rising tide lifts all boats, and I genuinely believe that. more information that we can share and collaborate on, the better we are as an industry. And I think it's also a great way to help us bring new people into our industry in terms of like training and helping new individuals and leaders into our space. ⁓ It better, you know, helps all us better prepare in terms of continuity planning, ⁓ helping the leaders as like where they're going to go and how they're going to grow ⁓ and help of our events no matter where they are. getting an introduction into our race and there's no better way than to really share our plans and you know just because we have a lot of plans that we're willing to share we learn so much through that collaboration with one another. You know I equate it to like when you when you have an aircraft carrier it's big it's it's massive it's got a ton of capabilities but it takes a lot takes a lot to stop it takes a lot to turn. ⁓

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Mike Nishi: But when you're you're nimble, you can do a lot more things. So we learn a lot equally from all of our partners, whether it's an Abbott-Wilmoth and majors partner ⁓ or small ⁓ 5K. always something to learn from someone And this really in the spirit of collaboration and sharing, ⁓ that's what brings. I truly believe in that. And ⁓ again, that rising does lift all boats.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. No, that is so true and I think you are a living example of that. I think you are pretty much on the road all the time sharing your expertise with other race directors, other communities, other organizers. So are living it as you are saying. So you for what you do for sure. What would be a couple of things that are RMP doing, you to highlight as a takeaway for race directors

Mike Nishi: ⁓ are key things in terms of sustainability initiatives that we have, whether it's environmental, like in the things that we do. ⁓ I believe that we are ⁓ when it comes to sustainability ⁓ how we do that in and every single event. We do like to share what those plans are. sustainability is so big and broad and it's very But ⁓ think there's a practical approach and there's so many different things and we started there, right? We didn't really have a sustainability program, ⁓ you have to start somewhere. It's like making that small drop into the ocean, it's that first step. And we have then built and enhanced of those plans, each of our sustainability program.

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Mike Nishi: year over year, but also challenged our team. It's like, what is that next thing that we can add on top? What is the next thing for following year? And we continue to compound that. So compounding it over time, it just becomes a really big program. And we've been doing this for over 12 years now, right? So you can imagine in terms of like what we've been able to develop over that time. And any one of these plans and multiple plans that we have, we want to share. So no one has to try to discover or try to do this on their own. It's always so hard to start something fresh, start something new. But if you have the lift and a plan to work with, that's something that we can definitely grow. So again, that's just one aspect. And there's so many other ones that we have that same philosophy, whether it's workforce management. It's like, how do you recruit? How do you retain your volunteer, your event staff, your key volunteer workforce? You know, those are really important when we've gone through ⁓ years of doing that and how do we enhance it. ⁓ are some of these different things that we're doing for retention strategy that are important? ⁓ try to develop something on their own? We already have something to start and work with that they can implement right out of the box. ⁓ those are the things and opportunity that we use the race management program ⁓ really share and connect with our industry professionals to be able to ⁓ that with them.

Kamal Datta: Right.

Mike Nishi: They have an opportunity really start something and not from scratch, but already having something pre-made in the box, ready to go, ⁓ at least to start with. So I think that definitely helps. And ⁓ lot of it is the collaboration and networking. Like any conference that you've been to, I'm sure you appreciate the networking and ⁓ to share these ideas, share these thoughts with one another. And that's what we bring people together to do.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great Let's about the Peak BiB Mike, if you have ⁓ reached a point where races are permanently sold out, which happens, Now, if you have reached a point where races permanently sold out, what is the new product that you're actually selling to participants it?

Mike Nishi: Well, one, it's a great position and a challenge to have, right? ⁓ Getting there is always a very tough road, and it can be a long road. In our case, it was long, but not as long as we anticipated. there's so much more that you can be doing once you do hit a cap, you close out sooner. There's so many different things that you can start to build ⁓ make more impact. For example,

Kamal Datta: Absolutely, yes. Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: think you're probably aware of the different pathways into the Chicago Marathon as an example. ⁓ charity program becomes extremely effective, popular. The only way our event after post-close are entries that are available through the charity program. ⁓ And through that, those charities are benefiting again through awareness and so many funds and great funds raised that go back to the programs and the great work that they're doing. And that's just one example. I think ⁓ we have those opportunities, as you continue to ⁓ those caps, maybe close out sooner, ⁓ you have different opportunities for event and organization with these different pathways ⁓ different opportunities then you can really start to bring into the mix for your event, whether it has a direct impact to your partners, that being like sponsors. Your runners themselves the charities tour partners so there's different things that you can start to build in and reimagine and the other part is like the storytelling and I think that's important aspect and you know in every event When you talk about selling out and different ways to get in you start to see the meaning of like ⁓ important that event is and what that means to them whether they're ⁓ know running for the first time whether they've ⁓

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Mike Nishi: our race multiple years in a row, ⁓ really important for them to take part in the race, take part in our event, whether they're participating, whether they're volunteering, whether they're spectating. ⁓ There's many amazing stories. ⁓ And it's a matter of how can we capture and collect a lot of those stories, no matter if it's from the participant, volunteer, ⁓ any way they're touching the event. There's just incredible stories for us to retell and put ⁓ a spotlight on. And I think it really helps the impact that we're making in terms of how that the event impacts the city, who they're running for, why they're running from, connections that so many different people, friends and family, ⁓ the people from the communities are out on the course, they're cheering other runners on, really gives us that opportunity to get people excited around this event. and create a much larger ecosystem for everyone to have and realize that this is their event. We help build the stage, and there's so many different people that are performing on it. ⁓ their stage and their performance, and really there to help build something them ⁓ to use their own experiences.

Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it becomes imperative that it's sold out year after year because people are connecting to those stories Last question on the rising tide lifts all the ship, How would you translate the logistics of a marathon major like Chicago or a $50 million event to a race director with say, ⁓ with 5,000 budget? Is there a way to translate that logistics?

Mike Nishi: Well, I think the logistics are challenging. I think it's the principles in terms of what's important. I think top three things in terms of that we think about our events, ⁓ regardless it's an 8K, the 5K, the day before, the shamrock to the marathon, I think there's the three interconnected ecosystems or ⁓ dimensions we think about our event. You know, it's the op, like we mentioned at the beginning, it's the operational excellence and the service that we provide, right? Then it's the experience we create for everyone, whether you're a participant, the volunteer, the fan, the vendor to the sponsors and so many more, and the impact that we make on our communities. So ⁓ can take that and that becomes scalable. You know, it's tough to say the logistics in terms of ⁓ someone build the same type

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike Nishi: of forward command and event operations center. Of course you can. Is it realistic? Is it necessary? they need to build something ⁓ the level that we do for a smaller ⁓ Probably not. ⁓ what I just mentioned in terms of operational excellence and ⁓ the experiences that ⁓ everyone, like how are they connected to the event? And then really connecting in terms of at the end of the day, ⁓ type of impact are you making on the Everyone and and and the communities that they're coming from where they are where they live where they work where they play So that's scalable and it's like you really need to focus on that and you always have an opportunity to enhance every aspect that I just mentioned Whether it's logistics whether it's through planning whether it's through communications there's like if you have those Basic you can apply that in terms of making that sustainable

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: for each event regardless of size.

Kamal Datta: Yeah, Noah, thank you for also connecting me to Kat. I think I chatted with Kat Morris on a similar topic. And thank you once again for connecting me with her. is that, like Chicago event, to give an example, can afford to have a sustainability program, right? It's fully, with stuff, a sustainability program. But if you talk about a smaller race, they may not be in a position to do that. But. what can they do, what can they learn from the program that an event like Chicago Marathon has can be incorporated in a 5,000 budget or a 10,000 budget race. So it's very critical and I believe with RMP you are sharing some of the secret sources as well with other race organizers that they can leverage what they can do at their scale.

Mike Nishi: Yeah, I think again, it's like our goal is to, we have the race management program and the presenters, you one of the key things that we ⁓ that those presenters are aware is like, how can they share something that's practical, that's ⁓ sustainable, sustainable in terms of what they can create the scale of their event, what they walk away with and hopefully implement as soon they possibly can, like having a plan that they can start to work.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: with, ⁓ whether it's like how to build an aid station and make that scalable based on here are the things that we think about that go into planning from an operational aspect, the planning of an aid station, and that's scalable. It's like how many people, what's your yield, how long it takes, and sharing a lot of that information. you know that's when you like we can get a little bit more tactical at the race management program.

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Mike Nishi: And we ensure that it's like a nice cross section to the event. You talk operational, and we're talking marketing, we're talking sustainability, and then presenting it again in a way that we're sharing information and not just saying, oh, this is how we do it at our scale and level. And a lot of people say, well, we can't do that because you're Chicago and we have a limited budget, but we're also doing it in a practical manner. So that's our approach. And truly, I feel that we're doing it in a way that's practical and helpful.

Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Mike Nishi: that anyone attending, regardless of the size of your event, can definitely benefit and walk away with idea or plan of how can we implement this or we can implement this at our next event ⁓ an event down the road.

Kamal Datta: Yeah, that is the key that you can take that as you mentioned is sustainable and scalable at the event you are in or the level or the scale you are in. Now, let's move to this topic of logistics of inclusivity. Every race ⁓ an inclusivity statement on their website, but you have been very vocal about moving DI from a marketing department to the operations department. What does it look like on the ground Mike?

Mike Nishi: Yeah, think first and foremost, as I said, when we look at Chicago Event Management, it's about our mission, vision, and purpose. And there is alignment in terms of the impact that people want to make on every individual that touches or is connected to our event. ⁓ I think when you ⁓ that approach, ⁓ know that it's not just a plan and here's how we do it.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: And here's our mission, vision, and purpose, and it's just a poster on the wall. I think one of the things that we all look at in terms of each one of us is the access and opportunity. When we talk about access and opportunity, you think of so many different things and does that mean to a participant? What does that mean to a volunteer? What does that mean to a spectator that's ⁓ to support and cheer on ⁓ runners? So again, when you think about access and opportunity, you always have that lens on. So when you start and design people register, there's certain things that you have to take into consideration in terms of ⁓ individuals visual impairments. So of course, you have to design the website so ⁓ it's readable ⁓ or ⁓ meeting requirements. Design the start and finish in terms of like

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: What does that the corral system look like? Is it accessible? Where do people have different abilities and all abilities, how do they access their different corrals? How do we assign them accordingly that we're not just separating them, but they're part of the event and they feel that they're part of the event. The course flow, same thing in terms of what are certain things that we have to consider for all abilities and people that are competing on the course.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: bridge carpeting that we have grading over the bridges, over the rivers. ⁓ And it can be ⁓ creating a hazard for different individuals, whether they're in a wheelchair that could flatten based on the grids. ⁓ so many things that we have to consider. ⁓ our workforce in terms of being inclusive and ensuring that we're bringing in so many different individuals. And we consider about access and opportunity when it comes to that.

Kamal Datta: I know, yes, yes.

Mike Nishi: when you put that lens on for our entire workforce, whether it's event staff and opportunities to what we're providing or creating for people from different communities in Chicago, spectator access in terms of how are they getting access, what's the emergency evacuation in the event that we have to move people that have a disability out of a venue, out of the finish line, out of the viewing areas at the start and finish area. When you have that lens on, those are the things. It's like not one plan, but many. But it takes each one of us that has that lens that basically walks their area and is thinking about accessing opportunity in their work.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Mike, I'm just curious, was there a specific, an example or so you can share where there was an operational failure in inclusivity that taught you that, no, it needs to move from marketing to actually an operations side of things.

Mike Nishi: I think there's a number of things that we always think about that of course if something didn't go according to plan and I'll just mention one for example there was ⁓ someone that ⁓ was part of our key stakeholder that we know that was a part of like the different events that we have hospitality our event Friday and for example we hosted here Bank of America Tower fully accessible right so ⁓

Kamal Datta: I see.

Mike Nishi: that individual was able to get here and attend the event seamlessly. When they went to the Hilton for a press conference, again, it's in a venue that has all the access that is required, required by law and everything else that they build up facility that they had no issues accessing and being part of that event. Being out in the park when we have one of our key hospitality venues, It was definitely accessible. They were able to go and enjoy and be part of that experience and that program. But when they went to the finish line, ⁓ had special seating for those individuals that had that hospitality offering, we didn't have that accessible to that seating area. ⁓ We have accessible viewing, but it was a

Kamal Datta: I see, I see. Mm-hmm. I see.

Mike Nishi: completely disconnected and away from where everyone else and those guests were seated. So it was a miss on our part, but definitely something that we are improving and will have a solution for. no matter where these guests are being invited, that they would still be able to be with those other guests that they've been with, and they don't feel like they've been separated. And that just happened last year. So we know that we're going to do better. We know that we are better than that.

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Mike Nishi: And we're going to think through all these different areas opportunities and really ensure that we're keeping the full journey of those individuals, and whether it's a participant, whether it's a volunteer, whether it's a guest, and make sure that we're looking at it from that perspective in terms of they engage and experience our event.

Kamal Datta: Just to ⁓ have some context on the hospitality package you're referring to, this you're referring to the stand at the finish line that people may buy the package to be, which is kind of assembled and disassembled within 24 hours, right? That we are referring to.

Mike Nishi: There's different hospitality offerings. In this case, it was a different invited type of venue and hospitality experience.

Kamal Datta: Ah, I see, I see, I see. Got it, got it, got it, got it, it. Cool. Let's move to Mike's personal engine section, I call it. You are a proponent of a single tasking, pilates, ⁓ meditation. In an industry, Mike, that glorifies ⁓ busyness and the ⁓ coffee grinds, how does your personal operating system protect the event's operating system?

Mike Nishi: Yes. So just repeating that is like, how do I down my date in order to pick up my busy day? Is that the question? I'm sorry.

Kamal Datta: So if you talk about the pilates and meditation, this is like moving slow, right? That I think you definitely practice, I think based on what I've seen so far. And how does it balance with the demand of running an organization like CME? So I think that's kind of the balance you're trying to get to. How does your operating engine looks like, or operating system looks like? Where do you balance this?

Mike Nishi: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, again, it's like anything else. If you run an engine too hot over time, it will cease. You do need that type of time and time for meditation to slow things down, time to reflect, time to breathe, which is most important. I think you can probably appreciate that. But it's important to find that time. You need to take those pauses. Whether it's a long time for meditation, I don't spend a lot of time, like hours doing it.

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Mike Nishi: 10 minutes and that's really just an opportunity to reset. Even resetting after each meeting, whether it's like two minutes before the next meeting, you know, I think is really important just to kind of refocus and re-center, taking a breath, collecting your thoughts and reflecting before you jump into the next thing. think I really appreciate my body responds well to that these types of routines, whether it's waking up and ⁓ a stretching routine. And ⁓ it's about

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Mike Nishi: re-centering and focusing as well as then taking time to meditate to really just like clearing my head, clearing the space to really reset and set for the day. So I do feel that as busy as we get and we jump in head first, you know, sometimes if we don't do that, it just compounds and it's just a continual grind and you do need that type of break. I know I need that break and taking that breath and you come out

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Mike Nishi: refreshed and energized and you're thinking more clearly.

Kamal Datta: No, that is so true. it's great to know. Thanks for sharing that. You take these breaks that pauses, slow down to go faster for sure. Mike, does the 13-year-old who ran Chicago in 1979 recognize the race you're running today?

Mike Nishi: I think yes, the distance of course. I think there's so many ⁓ ⁓ the distance does not change in terms of the marathon. I think there's so many things that I learned back then and I kind of jumped in as a whim. I ran the race without any training. ⁓ Never that again. You learn your lessons a hard way. ⁓ And think that's even to this day that no matter what, it's like you need to respect the distance. You need to put the proper training in.

Kamal Datta: here. Okay.

Mike Nishi: to get the most outcome and the benefit you can from that experience. I would have definitely experienced, had a better experience overall, had it been better prepared and trained for the event. But overall, I think that experience in itself, just running the marathon and what that meant at that time and ⁓ the around me and what it took to help me get across the finish line was one that you'll never ever forget. And I that's really something special. It reminds me.

Kamal Datta: is

Mike Nishi: in terms of how important it is in terms of this work that we do, whether you're running your first 5K or the 10th marathon, is like how important these experiences are to individuals. And it reminds us and really enables us to continue to do what we do at the level that we do it.

Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah, so true. Now let's move to the lightning round. So I'll throw it a couple of areas and whatever comes to your mind, Mike, so don't have to overthink it. Which department at CEM gets the least credit but is the most vital?

Mike Nishi: The least credit but the most vital, I believe, is probably the workforce management team. And that's the team that's responsible to recruit the tens of thousands of volunteers that it takes to run and operate events. I don't think a lot of individuals realize or a lot of events either. It's like we take that for granted. Because it happens, it occurs. But without that workforce, we would not be able to produce this event.

Kamal Datta: Yeah, I think they said biggest thing about operations, if it's going great, it's the team did a great job, but if it did one single incident, it's the leadership, right? So it comes back to that. So I'm that works as a clockwork. Next one, ⁓ one piece race stack that is currently ⁓ overrated.

Mike Nishi: Race tech that's currently overrated.

Kamal Datta: Over rate. Yeah overrated

Mike Nishi: I think the race tech, I believe that's overrated at this time. ⁓ that's a good question. I think ⁓ like technology. So I think everything that you see that we do, I feel is important. But I think ⁓ maybe like maybe it's not that it's less important, but I think there's opportunity to evolve. ⁓ And the way that we do timing, right? It's like, I think it's great to have

Kamal Datta: ⁓ Yeah. Hmm.

Mike Nishi: you know, the antennas on a bib and tracked on the mats. But it's like, I think it's limited by, you know, scope. It's like not a lot of races can do a mat at each mile. It's just the equipment needed, the staff needed. I truly feel that it needs to be a lot simpler. Tap into other devices and equipment that we all have. Just be a lot easier to implement. agnostic out there in terms of mats and ⁓ and transmitters, etc. I'm sure it's coming, but I truly feel that it's not overrated, ⁓ but think it's like there's an opportunity to advance the technology ⁓ so can have more checkpoints out there or maybe not even checkpoint per se, that it's just tracking you start to finish, whether it's GPS, Bluetooth or things like that, that I know it's coming.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. Right.

Mike Nishi: I'm not sure how soon, but definitely it ⁓ so many, I ⁓ think, better whether it's the participants, whether it's the spectators and fans tracking those runners. ⁓ I think definitely an opportunity ⁓ that you're down the road that's going to enhance the overall experience of our events.

Kamal Datta: Thank you. Thank you for flipping the question to creating an opportunity versus what is already there. So I really appreciate that. What is the first thing Mike Nishi does ⁓ Monday morning after Chicago Marathon?

Mike Nishi: I do my routine. ⁓ like my meditation, ⁓ stretching, lots of coffee because you're just exhausted, and just right back into my routine, working out, ⁓ doing something you feel refreshed. And again, the other part is like every day you're always collecting notes and feedback. ⁓ You're thinking about the hot washes you have after. every production, every event, like the three good things, the three need for improvement or the kiss, like the keep, improve, start and stop. And writing it down like daily or right after the event is imperative. The further away you get from the finish of the event, you start to forget about all these different things, whether it's the good things you want to keep or things you want to improve, stop doing, et cetera. That's entire week.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mike Nishi: I find the time just to collect my thoughts, to reflect, thanking the team as well. That's the other thing. Even after the event on Sunday, rolling into Monday, it's like not just taking the notes, being grateful and thanking the team immediately, but also all the different people that you connect with and help you produce an amazing event.

Kamal Datta: Thank you, Mike, for sharing that. probably make a lot of folks on your team ⁓ happy for sure. one. One to describe the future of the running industry.

Mike Nishi: Yeah, you got me stumped on that one. I think the one word that I have is impact.

Kamal Datta: Thank you. And I think you're living example of it for sure. I think as you talked about that you shared generously your expertise in building Chicago where it is today, very generously. So I think that makes total sense. ⁓ Mike, thank you for showing us the machinery that runs the machine and then sharing generously the learnings and expertise that you have. Really appreciate you being on this part and sharing your personal experience and your take on the industry and where it is heading.

Mike Nishi: Well, thank you, Kamal. This is a great conversation. A reminder and really helpful reminder is we're leading into an event weekend. So just remembering all the things they just stated and just holding myself accountable to that. So I appreciate this.