Where Do Your Old Running Shoes Actually Go? (The Truth)

Kamal Datta: Hey everyone, welcome back to What Runs a Run podcast and to this special mini series called Sustainability in 26.2, which is exploring the intersection of movement and the environment. I'm your host Kamal Datta and today we are lacing up for a conversation that's going to change the way you think about your running shoes long after they've hit their last mile. My guest today is a true visionary in the world of circular economy and a passionate advocate for environmental responsibility. I'm here with Mo Hashim, founder and CEO of Snicker Impact, an organization that's tackling the massive problem of food waste head on while simultaneously creating incredible social impact around the globe. Welcome, Mo.

Moe Hachem: Thank you for having me, Kamal.

Kamal Datta: It's absolutely pleasure to have you here. ⁓ Before we dive into the incredible work that Sneaker Impact is doing, let's start with your origin story. What was the spark that ignited the mission for you? Was there a moment you looked at a pile of old sneakers and said, there has to be a better way?

Moe Hachem: Blame it on the pandemic.

Kamal Datta: Okay.

Moe Hachem: So, during the pandemic, ⁓ I'm from the footwear industry, second generation. My father started this in the 60s. And we've been in the shoe industry and we've never looked into the DNA of the footwear, what happened afterwards. So typically, we only are told the first half of the story, the production, the logistics, sales and...

Kamal Datta: I see. Yeah.

Moe Hachem: that's about it. What happened afterwards? Nobody knows. I mean, there's a lot of different options. One bad option are landfill. Second better options are waste innovation. And we were using that, creating energy from waste. ⁓ we wanted to know ⁓ happened ⁓ during the pandemic, Kamal. ⁓ brother started riding skates. My wife started making cookies. I focused on, can we recycle footwear? And if we do, how to dissect? So the pandemic. ⁓

Kamal Datta: That's an interesting story for sure. Cool. So that's fascinating to learn that the pandemic has created a sneaker impact for sure. ⁓ You often mentioned that 90 % of the footwear currently end up in landfills, right? For our listeners who are probably diligent about replacing their running shoes every 300 to 500 miles, including myself, ⁓ that number is staggering. Do you want to a picture of what does the environmental footprint of that waste that looks like?

Moe Hachem: Thank Yeah, man. So 24 billion pairs are produced on an annual level worldwide. 2.4 billion come into the US on a yearly basis, and a billion of those are sneakers, between running shoes, cardinals, lifestyle, all that. Sneakers in the US are a fashion statement. They're not a transportation mode. So we wanted to see

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Wow. You

Moe Hachem: what happened afterwards. we looked into it and it looked like 87 % of textiles and footwear end up in the landfills. Yeah.

Kamal Datta: Wow. Obviously, it's definitely clear that the impact is huge. ⁓ But sneaker impact is not about the preventing just the waste, right? It's about creating a positive social impact as well. you have occasionally, I think you mentioned it quite a few times that, ⁓ or it's a philosophy that you run by that the sneakers are like cars for people in the developing nations. Do you want to elaborate a little bit on that?

Moe Hachem: Thank Thank So. ⁓ Exactly. the sneakers that can be exported to developing nations are a vehicle. That's how people get from point A to point B. That's how people go to work. That's how kids go to school. But you want to make sure you're sending the right product to the right market. Meaning, we're seeing a lot of waste in Africa, in South America, the Caribbean, Central America. You just want to make sure you're sending the right item to the right market.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Moe Hachem: So this is what we do here at Sneaker Impact. We make sure accountability each and everywhere, each and every pair is accounted for, and we're integrating AI for each and every pair that comes into our facility for accountability and for reporting backs to retailers and brands as well.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. Oh, OK. So let's talk about the journey of the shoe. So once it reaches sneaker impact, right, you want to walk us through what happens if somebody send a pair of shoes or you collect a pair of shoes. don't think you're going to talk a little bit about how you go about that as well. But if you want to walk us through the cycle. And I know that you also use some pretty advanced technology as well, including AI in your sorting process. So if you want to walk us through that whole process that you do.

Moe Hachem: Yeah, yeah, so great. So we have over 2,500 drop off location. I think we're closer to the 3,000 drop off locations with the corporate take back. We also have a consumer take back program where runners like yourself could order a bag from your condo and we'll ship you a bag with a prepaid shipment label. The sneakers come to our warehouse in a bag.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Moe Hachem: from consumers or a take-back box like the one you see behind me from the corporate world and the specialty running stores, municipalities, schools. When the shoes come by, they're ran into our AI table where each and every pair is accounted for. We count what is good sneakers, meaning wearable, what is end of life, and what is casuals, non-sneakers.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I see.

Moe Hachem: And we report back that information to the partners, meaning their emission report, what was good, what was bad. And we're also keeping ⁓ the brands, the colors, all that stuff from where they came from, the zip code, the addresses, to have better data on monitoring the recycling habits and other information if needed. so we do have a reuse arm and we have a recycling arm. reuse are shipped to developing countries and we are a for-profit social enterprise. The shoes that are not deemed to pass ⁓ the ⁓ arm are sent in-house to our recycling facility and we'll talk about the recycling a little bit more and how that works.

Kamal Datta: Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So on the reuse path, what happens? like, what is the kind of the steps you take? I think it probably boils down to your, philosophy, right? It's kind of goes to some places where actually it can be reused.

Moe Hachem: Kamal, it's all about just like attire. We need thread in the bottom of the shoes. The shoes have to have either perfectly fine threads or threads in pretty good condition. Just look at the attire of a shoe. If the shoe is not perfect on the top, if there's a small hole, it's fine. If the shoes need to be washed, it's fine. This is part of the job creation. So when the shoes are shipped to developing countries, there is a job being created by stitching the top of the shoe by

Kamal Datta: I see.

Moe Hachem: painting this up ⁓ by some paint, by washing. The more our partners, the more work they put into that particular sneaker, the higher they can sell it for. Because this is sold on the side streets. We just want to make sure this is, we're not shipping end of life or to developing countries. We're just shipping shoes that they could use. So you're not only reducing waste here at home.

Kamal Datta: ⁓

Moe Hachem: You're also creating micro business opportunities. Now, ⁓ if they can sell it as is, it's a perfectly wearable shoes, but we always advise them, hey, stitch it if it needs a stitch, ⁓ wash it, paint it on the side so they can receive more value. So this is all part of the job creation in the footwear industry. the shoes will end up in some of the shoes that you wear from the high-end running brands. They're engineered.

Kamal Datta: Right.

Moe Hachem: I mean it would be a perfect vehicle, a perfect ⁓ transportation method for them.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. That, I definitely love that analogy. The micro entrepreneurship that you mentioned about, so think there are two aspects you're referring to. is the job creation. I think it's probably near Miami facility. That probably happens around where you collect collection centers.

Moe Hachem: No, so the collection centers were collecting nationwide man where we have collection bins collection boxes in big doors We have Running stores. We have the municipalities. We have them in colleges nationwide. Yes

Kamal Datta: Right, right. I see, I see. And ⁓ the micro entrepreneurship that you mentioned is primarily after the shoes that can be reused, you process them and there are folks that probably able to ⁓ kind of sell them, as you said, in the roadside. That's where the opportunity is created for those folks, you're saying. Right.

Moe Hachem: Yeah, and this is overseas. mean, if they're able to fly down, they're more than welcome to come and take a look at what they're doing and do their own sorting. Meaning there is some sneakers better than others based on brands, based on quality, as long as they're perfectly fit to be exported. And we have a lot of our partners that cannot fly down. So they're shipped by 40 foot or 20 foot containers.

Kamal Datta: I see, I see. Now let's change gear to a little bit on the other side of it where it has given up. There is nothing can be done with the shoe at the end of life. I think that's where your Carp to Greet program, I think you refer to as comes into play, right? What happens to those shoes? So what kinds of new products are they material transformed into? Like you may want to walk through the whole process. I think it's a pretty fascinating workflow you have.

Moe Hachem: Yeah. But look, come on, when we started, we started with a dust collector and a small grinder. Now our facility could do up to 1,000 pairs per hour. It's all about purity, man, purity and separation. mean, sneakers are complex. mean, there's textiles, leather, foam, rubber, metals, glues, non-ferrous metals, ferrous metals, plastics, TPUs, and the list goes on and on.

Kamal Datta: Okay.

Moe Hachem: In order to separate, first, your first job is to separate textile, leather, foam, and rubber into different high purity polymers. Number two, we've integrated a new infrared into separating the foam. In order to make a shoe out of the foams,

Kamal Datta: Okay.

Moe Hachem: you need to separate the foam. So there's different kind of foams. For example, you've heard that term EVA foam, TPU foam, PU foam, ETPU. So if you want to make ⁓ an injection molded ⁓ pair of sandals or a midsole for a shoe, first you need to do high purity. So we're the first company that actually integrated near infrared. So each and every small polymer is is ran into a belt where the near-infrared separates the different polymers into different categories. So it's all about PRD level and definitely we have shredders, grinders, air density separators. have again more air density. We have huge cyclones to play with the air. But what we've...

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Moe Hachem: integrated into recycling is the technology of near infrared and nobody else has ever done that to our knowledge in the footwear industry.

Kamal Datta: I see. Okay. It's primarily to separate out those ingredients you mentioned, the TPUs, the PUs, and the different polymers. Okay.

Moe Hachem: the EVA. Well, look, if you're making a playground, that's fine. You can mix all the foam together or you make and mix all the rubbers together. And if you're making a playground, you're making a mat like the one you see behind me, that is fine. But if you want to go into shoe production, our ultimate goal, Kamal, look, making a playground is super cool. Making mats are pretty cool. And we've done that.

Kamal Datta: Right.

Moe Hachem: Our ultimate goal is to put those ⁓ polymers back into the circular economy. Why can't we make new shoes from old footwear? We've done it, and we were told it's impossible. It's not impossible. Other companies have integrated recycled material. So there's a term called pre-consumer, meaning the leftovers from factories. They took those, and they've made recycled shoes, like all the big brands. Worse than...

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Moe Hachem: Let's look at the post-consumer, the used footwear after they're done. Let's take that, let's shred them, grind them, separate them, and we'll give you the purity you need to inject that into making a new footwear. ⁓ We did not have a lot of years, four and five years ago, but now there's a lot of interest and we're in direct dialogue with a lot of the footwear companies.

Kamal Datta: I think I saw a post of yours on the social media channels where you build the midsole from the recycled material. I think you're talking about that. So is this kind of the direction you want to go? That is not the whole shoe, but I think at least a part of the shoe was through your recycled materials that you have gone through your factory of the processing center.

Moe Hachem: Yeah. We've made sandals, we've made shoes, we've made boots. We've made all kinds of stuff. It's a proof of concepts. people ask me, are you going to into footwear and this footwear production, footwear branding? No intentions right now, Kamal, but we wanted to show the whole world this could be done. And we have spoken at the FDRA, which is the Federation of the Footwear Association in America. We have spoken at other.

Kamal Datta: You did. I see. Yeah.

Moe Hachem: lot of different footwear events and we're saying this could be done and the magic word is post-consumer. Can we take post-consumer product and turn them into a new product? And look, the laws and the regulations are coming in and you know in California it's the law if a shoe brand brought a shoe here they have to take it back into the reduce, reuse or recycle.

Kamal Datta: Right.

Moe Hachem: And this is what we're doing. And this is what we're doing. And we're showing proof that this is not theory. Just like we do with a lot of universities, We have University of Miami. We have Florida ⁓ International School of Design. Students come here and roam in my warehouse. And it's an open dialogue with the future leaders. So ⁓ this has been done. And we want to hopefully more brands.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. Thanks

Moe Hachem: integrate that into their production.

Kamal Datta: That's awesome. I love the fact that it's an open door and people can come and you're actually meeting some of the future leaders in this space too. So if this is a proof of concept, right, where does the, after the carbon grind happens, where is this is kind of used? If I'm to say that, or reused the materials that you're sorting out.

Moe Hachem: Look man, this is the million dollar question here. We did not have a benchmark. I know you're from the IT system, IT world. And you guys have benchmark. If you want to look into an AI project, can consult some of your colleagues into an AI project if you're walking on it. And one of the languages that you know. It's all about calling one of your colleagues. We had no benchmark to go to.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Moe Hachem: So everything is created in-house. What have we created from the phone? We've created yoga mats. We've created just regular flooring mats. We're creating yoga blocks. We've done sandals. We've done slippers. We've done mid-soles. On the rubber, we've done the flooring of all my offices made from the rubber mats.

Kamal Datta: I see. Okay. I see. Mm-hmm. Nice.

Moe Hachem: Textiles we're playing with the textile. I don't know if you can see behind me. We're making blocks It's in the middle right there. We're making we're pressing the textile or making blocks We're in contact with a company in the US that want to test if they can spin that textile it's because it's 85 % polyester and They're gonna look at it And the textiles last week and maybe I'll show you in a minute. We've made a shoddy meaning

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ nice.

Moe Hachem: they'll make a huge sheet for insulation. They just press it down and it's super. Maybe if I have a chance, I'll show you what we've done with the textile. So we're creating all these items, one item at a time. And we're doing that here because we did not have a benchmark to go to. So, and we're all also always open for ideas and from people like yourself or your listeners, if they have any ideas or to make from the foam, the rubber, the leather, the textiles, we're all ears.

Kamal Datta: Cool. Yeah. That's awesome. That's great to know. Now, this definitely looks like a circular economy in action for sure. ⁓ You you mentioned a couple of times lack of benchmarks in the industry as such. ⁓ Talking about that, what are some of the biggest hurdles that you see when you're trying to break down the sneakers? given them the different materials and glues. think you have done a of videos I've seen. It's a very complex process. Like what are the challenges that you have to solve for to get to where you are?

Moe Hachem: We only have an hour.

Kamal Datta: Well, if you can do maybe a couple of minutes,

Moe Hachem: Hey man, it's just, it's, look shoes are complex and there's something called cross contamination, meaning when you shred a shoe, textiles is connected to leather, leather is connected to the foam, the foam is connected to the rubber, the rubber is attached to the textile on the front and on the back. There's plastic in the back at the shoe heel, it's called TPU or plastic pieces.

Kamal Datta: I see.

Moe Hachem: When you grind those pieces, we're stuck with some cross contamination. We're going to 6 to 8 ml, which is pretty small. It would be much easier on our machinery. It would be much easier on our near infrared system if the polymers were bigger. But if you have a bigger chunk, more than 8 ml or 6 ml, it will be attached to other pieces. I don't know if you're seeing what's happening. So we have to go as low as as the machine could handle. So cross contamination, meaning pieces mixed together. Kamal, our ultimate goal is not to make only flooring. We want to inject that into making new sandals and new omitsoles. And if you want to do that, your purity level have to be above 98%, 99%. So it was all a...

Kamal Datta: I see. I see.

Moe Hachem: fun, challenging ideas and work in progress.

Kamal Datta: All right, that's a good overview. So thank you for sharing that to get to that 98 % in what probably you have to go through, get to that purity of 98%, whatever material you're sorting.

Moe Hachem: Yeah. It could be done. Cross contamination is a challenge because let's say with the near infrared, it reads it. mean, as you know, near infrared, there's a light that comes down to say, yeah, this is EVA. Well, it just looks at the top. In the bottom, it might have like a really tiny piece of rubber, for example, and boom, you're in trouble there. This is not 100%. So that cross contamination is challenging, but we're working on that. And again, through more technology and through more work, we've done the sand also. We were successful.

Kamal Datta: So for someone who is just curious about, I have to ask you, so what is the challenge of cross contamination? okay, you infrared found it's an EVA and there was a little PU under that. What challenge it will pose for the post sorting or grading?

Moe Hachem: Well, it all depends what you make in the auto-bred. If you're a mat, a yoga mat, or if you're making a yoga block, or you're making flooring, it's not going to have no challenge. if you want to melt this, if you want to make a... Once you melt this, different PU, TPU rubber melts at different heats, so you want to make sure it's consistent. If you have EVA for injection molding, they all have to be at the same material so they can melt at the same time. If you include other material, they will not melt. And these are very expensive machinery when they're injected. So you'll mess up the whole system. And you're going to stop a whole system. So this is just an overview of what could happen when your polymers are not pure.

Kamal Datta: I see. I see, I see. Now, thanks for sharing, Mo. ⁓ Now let's shift the gear a little bit on the consumer side. So folks who are listening, they're probably wondering, how can I be part of this? How can I get my old running shoes, which previously I discard, you 300 to 500 miles? I think you mentioned a little bit a couple of times as well. What is the process of sending these shoes? And also the no catch aspect you sometimes talk about.

Moe Hachem: No, no, mean we're making it, we know people are busy and we're making it super convenient. If you have a running store, we're partnered with a lot of the running stores, of the colleges, municipalities nationwide. If you see our box, you can just drive to that box, drop it off there. If you're at home and you're busy, you can just go on our website, order your recycling bag and it will come straight to your apartment, your house, your condo.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.

Moe Hachem: in the with the postal office, it will have a prepaid shipping label. And the only work you have to do is seal the bag, fits up to six pairs and you can drop it off at any FedEx location.

Kamal Datta: That's cool and the prepaid shipping right you said probably especially folks that are interested individually. Yeah.

Moe Hachem: it You know, we're keeping it right now as prepaid. There is a cause that's going to come afterwards, but it's all about the R &D right now. But we're ⁓ eating the cost right now as a company, but down the road, there will be a cost. We haven't done that as of right now, and we want to keep the service to let the whole world know that we exist, and this could be done.

Kamal Datta: And you also mentioned that you partner with the specialty running stores or the local stores we're selling. Is it primarily as of now nationwide or beyond US?

Moe Hachem: you Yeah, we are nationwide in all 50 states. We actually have partners in Alaska and Hawaii as well. Not only California to Maine to Arizona, Florida. We're nationwide. And yes, we do have Sneaker Impact Europe. So Sneaker Impact Europe is in Amsterdam. If Charles is listening, shout out to Charles Van Heik. Charles is taking over. He's our general manager in Europe.

Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. ⁓ wow.

Moe Hachem: and it's located in Amsterdam, so in The Hague.

Kamal Datta: I see. ⁓ nice. That's good to hear. ⁓ You shared a vision before, like a kind of a 10 year dream plan, that ideally sneaker impact wouldn't need to exist. Because if shoe brands would be designing for the end of life from the start, are you seeing any promising movements in the footwear industry towards that circular design?

Moe Hachem: Yeah.

Kamal Datta: You shared a vision before, ⁓ ⁓ a 10 year dream plan, ideally sneaker impact ⁓ need to exist. ⁓ Because if shoe brands would designing for the end life from the start, you seeing any promising movements in the footwear industry towards that design?

Moe Hachem: Look, currently we have not. I know some of the brands that have done an amazing job. Kamal, this is super easy. Make a shoe with less material. Can we make a shoe with the same material? Where you take a shoe and some brands are trying that. Make a shoe with very similar material and you grab it, you throw it in the grinder and you make a new shoe again. If this happens,

Kamal Datta: Right.

Moe Hachem: this is super easy. Make a shoe with less ⁓ material. Can we make a shoe with same material? Where you take shoe and some brands are that. a shoe with very similar material and you grab it, you throw it in grinder and you make a new shoe again. If this happens, would be the ultimate goal. I on running tried something like this and I hope they can continue to do that stuff. And they'll they would ask clients ⁓ to ship back to them after it's done. And ⁓ I know ASICs have a similar project as well. But this would the ultimate goal. And ⁓ we always talk ⁓ in our conversation brands. would be the ultimate goal. ⁓ know ⁓ running has tried something like this and I hope they can continue to do that stuff. And they'll they would ask clients ⁓ ship it back to them after it's done. And ⁓ know ⁓ have done a similar project as well. ⁓ this would be the ultimate goal. And ⁓ always talk to ⁓ our conversation with brands.

Kamal Datta: I I

Moe Hachem: If they made the shoes with less material, it would be much easier to recycle. They could do it themselves and inject it back into their circular economy, or we will be here to help as well if they need our help. So yeah, I mean, this would be the ultimate goal for all of us. If they made the shoes with less material, it would be much easier to recycle. They could do it themselves and inject it back into their circular economy, or we will be here to help as well if they need our help. So yeah, I mean, this would be the ultimate goal for all of us. There's no planet.

Kamal Datta: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I remember I was reading the case study about the Nespresso, the coffee pods. I think they're the circular where when they took the initiative to actually see end to end the life cycle, right? And consumers can actually ship it back those pods back to Nespresso. And then I how do that? I think you're talking of something similar in the show industry too. mean, but you have to design, you have to build for the circular.

Moe Hachem: Yeah.

Kamal Datta: to work, you probably design first the way I think you are referring to it's ⁓ less materials or the similar kind of a materials that they're ⁓ to recycle. Probably that is probably also think it through.

Moe Hachem: Yeah, I I think the Nespresso capsules, I would think they're much easier to recycle. We have coffee and aluminum I think. But yeah, with our infrastructure, it's not only the shredding, the grinding, the reuse and the recycling. Also the logistic infrastructure was pretty complicated as well. Because you have a web in all 50 states, different cities.

Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Moe Hachem: I look at Sneaker Impact as a technology company, a recycling company, a reuse company. It's a combination of different lens of how you're looking at it. With the data that we're collecting, we want to learn more the habits, we want to learn more what runners are doing and how much life are in those shoes. And I feel on a daily basis we're learning more and more.

Kamal Datta: I see. Yeah, that's for sure. think you're probably solving problems as you come across versus, I know all the problems that potential I face and then I know I have a playbook to solve those. Probably it's not that way. It's probably you encounter a problem, solve for it, you can do the next one and then you solve for it, you go from there. So ⁓ looking forward, what's next for Snicker Impact? I think you alluded a little bit that you are a technology company. ⁓ Are there any new initiatives or partnerships or technologies on the horizon that you can share?

Moe Hachem: You should come to my office downstairs and see. They keep telling them, ⁓ what are we doing this week? I feel this is a new initiative. we have to, it's all about involvement. And yes, we're constantly working on evolving the system because it hasn't been done before at that level. What's next? The focus right now is to...

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Moe Hachem: We're actually talking to a sandal company right now to make sandals out of our polymers. We want to push more and more, and this will be in our social media ⁓ very soon, and on LinkedIn and other channels we use. We want to be able to work harder to integrate more and more of our polymers into the footwear industry. We're testing here in-house. We've tried to make yoga mats with different contractors. It didn't work. So we bought a press machine and we made the yoga mats here. so there's different products. We just want to now proof of concept, bring more product to the market and say, this is what could be done from the end of life.

Kamal Datta: ⁓ wow, see, brought in in D'Orsay. I see, I see. That's great. So Mo, definitely it's an incredibly enlightening conversation. I know you work with Snow Impact, Sneaker Impact. It's not just a, I mean, it's not the impactful work that you are doing. It's actually genuinely inspiring. So thank you. ⁓ Before you wrap up, what would be a one key message that you'd like every runner or every sneaker owner per se to take away from our discussion today about the role shoes?

Moe Hachem: No, want to tell them the second half of the story first of all keep on running good luck on your marathons and What what I tell people all the time come on? We should be the last option if you have siblings if you have friends Hand them over those sneakers you guys as a runner in the running community Sneakers can go up to 250 bucks $200 a pair 150 bucks

Kamal Datta: Yeah.

Moe Hachem: So hand them over to your siblings, hand them over to your kids, if you have kids, to your friends, but wear them again as a casual shoe. They should never end up in the landfill. 87 % of the public toss them. We are here to help, but we always say, if you can find a better way here at home to hand over these sneakers, go for it. But we are here to help. through our Bugs program or the Take Back with the Bugs program.

Kamal Datta: Yeah, thank you. That's awesome. Mo, thank you so much for sharing what you're doing at Sneaker Impact. And it's really impactful. think you mentioned that, touched on so many dimensions that you're impacting socioeconomic way. And then your vision for Sneaker Impact as well. So.

Moe Hachem: No, thank you, man. Thank you so much and hey good luck good luck I know you're running the London Marathon. Good luck with London man. I'll be watching

Kamal Datta: Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's week two of trading. ⁓ But I have a, I'm pretty confident that I'm sure it'll be fine and then we'll run. But thank you. ⁓ So I'm just wrapping it up to all our listeners. Hey, thanks for tuning in and hope this episode was encouraged you to look at your running shoes, not just as a gear for your next run, but as part of a larger, more sustainable cycle.

Moe Hachem: Amen.

Kamal Datta: ⁓ Don't forget to visit sneakerimpact.com to learn more about Moa and what the great work that Sneaker Impact is doing and actually primarily to also find out how can you send your old shoes and to be part of this solution. So until next time, keep running, keep exploring and keep striving for a more sustainable stride. Thank you.