WHAT RUNS A RUN · SEPTEMBER 26, 2026
Why Europe Marathon Classics Series Is Built on People, Not Races
Kamal Datta speaks with Marek Tronina, race director and CEO of the Warsaw Marathon Foundation, about turning Warsaw Marathon from a near-closed event into one of Europe’s most enduring road races. They also unpack the creation of European Marathon Classics, a new eight-race series built to preserve marathon heritage, grow runner experience, and create a more accessible European alternative to the biggest global marathon brands.In this episode, Marek shares how leadership in running is less about doing everything yourself and more about finding the right people, protecting quality, and building emotional connection alongside race-day logistics. He also explains the friction, decisions, and strategy behind launching a cross-border marathon project in just 12 months. Key Topics: Marek describes the shift from a niche running scene to a mainstream participation culture, and how Warsaw Marathon grew from a few hundred runners to 14,000 registered runners. Marek reflects on a difficult period from roughly 2015 to 2020, when Warsaw Marathon stagnated, and how the pandemic helped reset the team’s energy and purpose. He details the European Marathon Classics launch and why eight races, including Rome, Madrid, Lisbon, London, Vienna, Warsaw, Frankfurt, and Copenhagen, came together around a shared vision. He shares the biggest friction point in the series launch: how to handle historical finishes and whether past marathon results should count toward the new series. He says the long-term goal is for European marathoners to naturally see the series as part of their running path, alongside preserving the marathon’s European heritage. Time Stamps: 00:00 - Marek Tronina’s role in Warsaw Marathon and European Marathon Classics 01:10 - Warsaw Marathon’s 2002 reality: almost no mass-running culture in Poland 03:16 - Saving the race from shutdown and staging an edition in two months 05:13 - Why journalism and broadcasting helped in race leadership 06:38 - From 307 finishers to 14,000 registered runners 08:35 - Knowing your strengths, weaknesses, and finding the right team 10:11 - Why emotional experience and logistics both matter 13:00 - The split finisher medal and the idea of giving a half to someone who helped you 14:29 - The post-pandemic surge in mass participation running 19:33 - Digging the well early: always plan ahead and keep improving 21:07 - The tough years between 2015 and 2020 24:19 - Competing with a commercially backed marathon in Warsaw 25:46 - Running a 36-hour marathon during pandemic restrictions 27:13 - Why major marathons dominate and how mid-tier races can survive 29:12 - Why quality KPIs matter more than pure runner counts 31:12 - Trust, volunteers, and preparing so others can do their jobs well 34:42 - The catalyst for European Marathon Classics 38:00 - Why the project had to move fast and make hard decisions 41:00 - The fight over historical finishes and why past results matter 45:59 - How the eight races were selected 49:13 - The moment the idea crystallized in London 53:53 - European Marathon Classics as a complementary alternative, not a rival 56:27 - Turning marathon travel into a fuller tourism and culture experience 59:53 - Why Europe should protect the marathon’s heritage and future 62:52 - Marek’s vision for where the series should be in five to ten years 64:53 - Why Athens Marathon remains special to him 66:21 - Rapid fire begins: favorite course, logistical nightmare, pre-race calm, carbon plates, and kilometer 38 75:26 - Marek’s closing advice: enjoy life and go out for a run Reference: https://europeanmarathonclassics.eu/
CHAPTERS
3 KEY TAKEAWAYS
- 01Marek describes the shift from a niche running scene to a mainstream participation culture, and how Warsaw Marathon grew from a few hundred runners to 14,000 registered runners.
- 02Marek reflects on a difficult period from roughly 2015 to 2020, when Warsaw Marathon stagnated, and how the pandemic helped reset the team’s energy and purpose.
- 03He details the European Marathon Classics launch and why eight races, including Rome, Madrid, Lisbon, London, Vienna, Warsaw, Frankfurt, and Copenhagen, came together around a shared vision.
SHOW NOTES
Kamal Datta speaks with Marek Tronina, race director and CEO of the Warsaw Marathon Foundation, about turning Warsaw Marathon from a near-closed event into one of Europe’s most enduring road races. They also unpack the creation of European Marathon Classics, a new eight-race series built to preserve marathon heritage, grow runner experience, and create a more accessible European alternative to the biggest global marathon brands.In this episode, Marek shares how leadership in running is less about doing everything yourself and more about finding the right people, protecting quality, and building emotional connection alongside race-day logistics. He also explains the friction, decisions, and strategy behind launching a cross-border marathon project in just 12 months.
Key Topics:
- Marek describes the shift from a niche running scene to a mainstream participation culture, and how Warsaw Marathon grew from a few hundred runners to 14,000 registered runners.
- Marek reflects on a difficult period from roughly 2015 to 2020, when Warsaw Marathon stagnated, and how the pandemic helped reset the team’s energy and purpose.
- He details the European Marathon Classics launch and why eight races, including Rome, Madrid, Lisbon, London, Vienna, Warsaw, Frankfurt, and Copenhagen, came together around a shared vision.
- He shares the biggest friction point in the series launch: how to handle historical finishes and whether past marathon results should count toward the new series.
- He says the long-term goal is for European marathoners to naturally see the series as part of their running path, alongside preserving the marathon’s European heritage.
Time Stamps:
00:00 - Marek Tronina’s role in Warsaw Marathon and European Marathon Classics
01:10 - Warsaw Marathon’s 2002 reality: almost no mass-running culture in Poland
03:16 - Saving the race from shutdown and staging an edition in two months
05:13 - Why journalism and broadcasting helped in race leadership
06:38 - From 307 finishers to 14,000 registered runners
08:35 - Knowing your strengths, weaknesses, and finding the right team
10:11 - Why emotional experience and logistics both matter
13:00 - The split finisher medal and the idea of giving a half to someone who helped you
14:29 - The post-pandemic surge in mass participation running
19:33 - Digging the well early: always plan ahead and keep improving
21:07 - The tough years between 2015 and 2020
24:19 - Competing with a commercially backed marathon in Warsaw
25:46 - Running a 36-hour marathon during pandemic restrictions
27:13 - Why major marathons dominate and how mid-tier races can survive
29:12 - Why quality KPIs matter more than pure runner counts
31:12 - Trust, volunteers, and preparing so others can do their jobs well
34:42 - The catalyst for European Marathon Classics
38:00 - Why the project had to move fast and make hard decisions
41:00 - The fight over historical finishes and why past results matter
45:59 - How the eight races were selected
49:13 - The moment the idea crystallized in London
53:53 - European Marathon Classics as a complementary alternative, not a rival
56:27 - Turning marathon travel into a fuller tourism and culture experience
59:53 - Why Europe should protect the marathon’s heritage and future
62:52 - Marek’s vision for where the series should be in five to ten years
64:53 - Why Athens Marathon remains special to him
66:21 - Rapid fire begins: favorite course, logistical nightmare, pre-race calm, carbon plates, and kilometer 38
75:26 - Marek’s closing advice: enjoy life and go out for a run
Reference:
https://europeanmarathonclassics.eu/
Kamal Datta: hey everyone. Welcome back to What Runs a Run Podcast, a show where we dive deep into the mechanics, the culture, and the business of the running industry. Today we are joined by one of the key architects of European road racing, Marek Tronina. Marek is the race director and CEO of Warsaw Marathon Foundation. For decades, he was guided the growth of running in Central Europe.
Marek: you Okay.
Kamal Datta: Taking the Warsaw Marathon from its historic roots to an event drawing thousands of international runners. Recently, Marek and his peers introduced a massive shift in European distance running with the launch of European Marathon Classic Series, uniting eight iconic European marathons under one banner. Marek, welcome to the show.
Marek: Hello everyone and thank you Kamal for having me. I'm really honored and pleased to be here and I'll be happy to share my story and my thoughts.
Kamal Datta: Alright, thank you. And equally excited to have you on the pod. So let's start with your background. You have been at the helm of the Warsaw Marathon for over two decades. The race has a rare badge of honor. It is the European marathon with the longest uninterrupted streak of editions running every single year since 1979. So when you first stepped into this leadership role with this foundation in the early 2000s. What was the vision and how hard was it to shift running in Poland from a niche activity to a mainstream mass participation culture, Marek?
Marek: Well, you have to first of all realize that back in 2002, which was my first Warsaw Marathon as the head of it, the
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: mass running in Poland was almost non-existent. was amateur runners, recreational runners, whatever you call them, hobby runners. They were really rare. spotting a runner jogging out in the street was not a common view, not a common sight. So that wasn't really easy, first of all, to get enough people together to make an event that would make some sense. At the same time, I was a beginner in the marathon world. I ran my first marathon in the spring of 2002 because I like always kind of always had wanted to run a marathon. That was something for me. And then in
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: the summer of 2002, I decided, okay, I did my first, then it's time to do my second. And obviously it's going to be in Warsaw, in my hometown, and let's see how to register for it. And what I found out was that this race that was kind of... icons of my childhood, one of the legends that I was brought up with or brought up around, was almost closed down because the previous organizers said they didn't have enough money, it's too difficult to organize a race for like 500 people so, and they just had given up. And I was in the point where I was really looking for something, some big thing that I could focus my energy on and
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: I then I realized okay if I'm going to run it and this race is not going to happen why Don't I start looking into how to organize it and to me that was that was that very quickly Became a mission to get it going I mean, it sounds like a fairy tale now But we were able to put together our first edition which was then the 24th edition of the world's summer aton in literally two months. Crazy. Not happening these days. But it was still possible then. And
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: it was organized by runners and for runners. initially, didn't mean to call it the Worst Marathon. We just wanted to organize a jog for runners on the marathon date. But very quickly, we realized that that the people around us want the Warsaw Marathon to continue. So we just called it the 24th Warsaw Marathon. And so it ran.
Kamal Datta: I see.
Marek: So it ran. And of course, it was a success because we were able to save it from, you know, from
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: not being organized. So we kind of saved the continuity. And then I realized that That's actually something that I've been looking for for quite some time. My background was sports, basically. Before that, I had been a sports journalist. I was a sports commentator, TV commentator for the Polish national television. I was at the Olympics twice, Athens. 2004 and before that Atlanta 1996. And so my
Kamal Datta: okay.
Marek: background was really very much in sports, but that was a different experience. I had no organizational experience, so I had to get together a group of people who would know what needs to be done in order to stage an event that has some quality. The first edition in 2002
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: was full improvisation. Let's face it. And we were quite lucky because the weather
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: was dreadful. The wind was crazy and it was raining like hell. And all the mistakes that we had made in the preparations, they were not seen. Nobody could see them just because of that rain and because of that wind. And everyone was happy that the race
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: even happened. That's how it started and actually that's quite some story because in the first one that I was a part of, the one in 2002, we had exactly 307 finishers in the marathon. That was the smallest one ever. Next year it was 1,000 and
Kamal Datta: I see. Mm.
Marek: then we grew slowly all the way to where we are now, which is 14,000 runners registered for the 40. 48 running of the worst Martin that's in a nutshell my story in the worst of art
Kamal Datta: No, thank you. Thank you for sharing. How do you say that your background in sports journalism may have helped you grow this race? You say that may not be connected, but I I I see a parallelism that you're able to articulate what this race means and and put a a team together to execute may have played a role or you would say that maybe it's more than that.
Marek: Two things. think number one is that I had some name in the country. Not a big one, let's face it. But well, in the sports industry, people knew me. That's number one. So first, in some situations that
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Marek: helped. Number two, how should I put it? I'm well spoken. I can communicate easily. I get along easily with people. I have no communications problem. I don't have a stage fever. Nothing of that kind. And it does
Kamal Datta: I see.
Marek: help a lot. So I could handle situations where I had to speak with audience, speak to the public, handle the media, etc. And it did help in the early stages. I keep repeating. One of the worst, one of the, one of the things that I'm worst at is organization per se. I get lost in details. Details is not me, but what I'm
Kamal Datta: I see.
Marek: quite, what I'm quite good at is creating ideas and finding, finding the right people to execute these ideas. That's, that's probably one of my biggest strengths and I think I have over those 25 years, I've been able to combine these two. Well, it took me some time, I must admit, it took me some time to find out what my strength is and what my weaknesses are. That's important. I didn't know it in the very beginning, but you know, human being is a learner. At least I am one. I'm learning slowly, but consequently, and I learned this, discovered that. I think this what made our events and our organization really strong. The strength of the people who share the same why that I have. Because I know my why and I also know that I have to find the people with the right why in what they do in their lives.
Kamal Datta: Makes sense. No, thanks for sharing that side as well because that's critically important, that alignment of why. And then you say some of the things that is natural to you, public speaking, handling the media, I'm sure that played a key role too. one of the things that and I was looking into Warshow Marathon that I saw that you have always focused on the human side of the race, like the iconic split finisher medals where runners get to give half of the medal back to someone who supported them. How important is emotional experience versus pure race logistics when building a sustainable event?
Marek: Well, the emotional experience is everything, but you must not forget that you are not able to trick people and tell them that, well, you just
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: finished a marathon and although the race organization was crap, you should be happy about your race. That doesn't work that way.
Kamal Datta: yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Marek: I mean, both both ends need to be covered. And obviously, we pay a lot
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: of attention to detail. Really, we I must say that my team is very much focused on securing the highest standard of organization. But we've been doing this for 25 years now. And I know that we have covered that and good enough, well enough, so that we can focus also on the emotional side, on getting the human stories, on fine-tuning all those details that matter, things that build to perfection, or build the perfection, right? So I would not
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: say that one of these two elements is more or less important. Both are equally important. And I in the early in the early years I was I was repeating phrase that okay You can put I don't know a hundred bands along the course, but if the course is not Long enough it does if it doesn't have twenty six point two miles all those bands don't matter because people
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: will kill you just because they didn't run the full marathon but Now we we
Kamal Datta: Right, right.
Marek: already handle the length So to say, we know how to organize the marathon right, and we can pay more or add more and more our energy to this emotional side of it.
Kamal Datta: And what was the thought process when you introduced, I don't know, it it's somewhere along the way you introduced the the split metal? Because I think that's a it's an interesting concept that you can share half of a metal with someone.
Marek: Well, this concept is quite young actually. The first time we had it was last year, 2025. We always like to
Kamal Datta: it did. Okay. Okay.
Marek: play around with the metal, make it look different,
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: etc. Different stories about the metal, but this one is absolutely top-notch in terms of ideas. I I'm pretty sure that there is no other big race worldwide that has medal that can be split and the idea behind the split is that you Give away a half of your medal to the one who deserves it that is to the one who helps you the most Across your way to the Martin finish line, which to me as I speak it is emotional
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: because it's really emotional
Kamal Datta: That is true. Yeah, because yeah, because every race as I I think I spoke to a lot of folks that it's an individual sport, but yeah, y you are running the finish line, getting to the finish line, but that there are people who actually helped you to get to the finish line for sure. So it's a nice way to definitely dedicate it whoever you choose to dedicate to for sure. Now let's move to a little bit of the exciting part, I think. you know, post Warshow Marathon success you have. So post pandemic, obviously
Marek: Okay.
Kamal Datta: the mass participation sports have experienced a massive surge that we all know. But also shifting the runner behaviors. according to you, what is the current state of mass participation events across Europe right now and where are the tailwinds and where are the operational headaches where you sit, Marek?
Marek: Well, obviously the world of mass participation organizers is So happy about what's happening right now but at the same time most of the people realize that That's gonna last forever that it's time to start digging your well now before the water ends, right? So this was Also one of the reasons behind creating European marathon classics. That's not that's number one, but in general what My Opinion is that if we are to make Running as accessible as possible because it has to be as accessible as possible. We must try everything make sure that it's not a sport that is too expensive to participate in. And I'm not saying it is too expensive now, it's
Kamal Datta: I see.
Marek: where it is because some races are definitely expensive, some are not, so there's no one, no single
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: common denominator for this, but accessibility is number one. Number two is making it a part of your well-being. Which is actually, actually, which is great news, which is actually happening and it has happened. It has become in the generation of 20 to 30, 30 year olds. It has become a natural part of their lives. They drink less. They socialize in a bad way. If you know what I mean, less. And this was replaced by a running.
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: by running, jogging, running clubs, running societies, whatever you call it. And I think if we are able to discover the mechanisms that resulted in this situation, we will be able to apply them in the future, to find ways to get people together and show to them, look, there is... an interesting, valuable, an attractive way to spend your life, which can give you fulfillment, satisfaction, the feeling of happiness in a very positive and healthy way. I mean, these are really big words. I realize that. But at the same time, we... should as the industry make every effort to find out what really stands behind this outburst of popularity of running sports in general among the people between 20 and 30 year old. Because it's pretty
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: exceptional. It wasn't the case 10 years ago. It wasn't the case 20 years ago. And what is also important is that it's the best generation to invest in because it's the youngest generation. It's going to last for decades. And so if
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: we invest in these people, they are going to stay with us, most of them for years to come. And they are going just like women. This segment is growing rapidly. Also same, same thing, same story. So let's find the people and let's motivate the people who are not with us yet using the same mechanisms that attracted to our world the people who are already with us.
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. When you say Mark, dig your well when you can, do you want to elaborate on maybe an example or two? if you are a running organizer and you are seeing a tremendous amount of growth, what would be some actionable things they can do?
Marek: Number one, never be satisfied with what you have just done. I mean, be satisfied, absolutely. Praise yourself if you deserve it.
Kamal Datta: Sure, yeah.
Marek: But always find ways to do it better, as simple as that. Always plan ahead, think strategically. I
Kamal Datta: Right.
Marek: think it's absolutely important to never stop thinking about how you can do certain things better. And I know it sounds really like some self-coaching theory, but I know that the story that we have had in Warsaw, going all the way from 300 people to where we are now, it shows that's...
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: And how we did that shows that this is exactly the way. We were never happy where we were yesterday and yesterday was the marathon day and we were always trying to find ways to make it better, more attractive, more interesting, more self-satisfying, et cetera, et cetera. I think you have to be hungry for more, hungry
Kamal Datta: Mm.
Marek: for better, hungry for higher quality.
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: I had a very... tough time between roughly 2015 and 2020. I was done with Warsaw Marathon. I had no idea what to do with it anymore. I'm serious. That was really tough times for me. Guess what happened to the Warsaw Marathon in this period of time? It was in crisis. We didn't grow. It was going up and down.
Kamal Datta: okay. Mm-hmm.
Marek: up and down in terms of number of runners. And then...
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: pandemic came and we had very little to do, although we did organize the marathon in 2020 in the pandemic, which is another story. But then I just think that this basically year off helped me and also probably my team. Reset. Find a new energy and. We kind of started a new with new energy with new why you understanding what we are doing and why we are doing
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: things. Look where we are now. And I know that the whole word is saying we're still out. We sell out. And there's never been so many runners around. Yes, that's true. But I know races who are not selling out, who are as big as they were in 2019. So it's not about everyone. It's not about everyone.
Kamal Datta: Yeah. Right, right.
Marek: So I. I just think that again, it goes back to your why, to your reasons, to why you started this. Because if you are motivated by profit, I mean, this may be a reasonable why. Every business is about profit at the end of the day. But I mean, if you start with doing something that goes beyond the money, beyond that balance sheet, beyond profit and loss. That's a whole different story
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: that changes everything. That changes your momentum, that changes the way you think about it. It changes the way you face challenges and find solutions. So, yeah. That's me, that's how I think, that's where I am.
Kamal Datta: I see. I I I I don't know if you are open to sharing. I would be curious. You mentioned that 2015 to 2019 was a a what do you call a rough patch in in Warsaw Marathon and Personal IndU and then the team you mentioned. is there anything particularly you would like to share that phase? Because that's probably the learning post pandemic you what do you call the spring forward from there.
Marek: Well, it was I think there were two reasons One was very personal. That was a tough time for me. That was that was number one number two
Kamal Datta: okay.
Marek: we had we we had to face internal competition in worse in the city because we had another marathon organized in Warsaw and It was they had all the money in maybe not the world, but they have all the money in the country It was organized fully commercially by Poland's largest company. It was it was an oil company And they just wanted to pay runners off, literally. I mean, their budget was probably five, six times bigger than ours. And we couldn't compete with the money, with them. But this, as you called it, rough patch, proved that if your why is right, then probably you have all the chances to succeed. Because come the pandemic, they just quit. They were done. They didn't want to do this anymore. They were
Kamal Datta: Right.
Marek: not interested. They didn't want to face the problem. They didn't want the problem. That's it. And what we saw in 2020 was a chance to prove that Warsaw Marathon is unstoppable. created this as an approach and treated this as an opportunity So instead of saying, okay everyone's The whole world is saying okay not in this year. We said okay, then we are doing this and We were crazy enough to Okay, that's a great story we were crazy enough to organize a marathon that lasted 36 hours because the only legal activity that was allowed was one with maximum 250 people. So we said, okay, we can organize four marathons, each of them having 250 people. Yeah, so we started on Saturday,
Kamal Datta: okay, I see.
Marek: on Saturday around, I guess, three or four pm, and continued all the way until Sunday evening, setting 250 people off every seven hours. But we did it.
Kamal Datta: That's interesting. I don't know if London Marathon got the idea from that that s kind of events that they're going into today event now next year. you alluded to this fact, I have to double click on this, that you know, major races like London or Berlin or some of the other marathons too, they they're selling out in minutes, right? By a lotteries or when they open up the registration. where a mid-tier or regional marathon struggles to fill their fields, right? With and and also retain runners. I mean, what is, as you have seen that, you know, different phases of that growth that you shared so far? How how do independent major marathons thrive in that middle space without being swallowed by this massive commercial endurance conglomerate that I think you eluded a little bit?
Marek: Again, I think you have to find a balance between the people who are rushing through your door to get a spot in your race and they're ready to do literally everything to get it and some common sense that
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: tells you or should tell you, okay, you are still the same person that was here five years ago and 10 years ago. You probably have learned something. probably know that this can change in a minute. And also, I mean, what we
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: are not saving, we are not saving the world here. And we are not a rocket science at the same time. That's a very simple mass activity that we shouldn't complicate too much. mean, organizing a race is not simple. I'm not saying that.
Kamal Datta: Mm. Yeah.
Marek: But running is simple. Running in
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: the marathon, it's simple, although difficult. and even painful. But again, there are so many opportunities around the world that even if someone is not lucky enough to get a spot in the London Marathon, and in most of the cases they are not lucky enough, they can run anywhere else. And it's not the end of the world if they don't get that spot, don't get that big number. And at the same time, I mean, what we had the biggest problem with in the early days of the Warsaw Marathon was that we weren't meeting our KPI, KPIs in terms of the number of runners that we were able to gather. We wanted, I don't know, 2000 runners. We got, I don't know, 1700 and we were unhappy about it. And then all of a sudden we said, okay, we must not... think about our race in terms of how many runners we will attract. We must define our KPIs differently,
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: focus on quality, focus on other things. And that changed absolutely, it turned the whole picture around. We started growing both in terms of quality and numbers immediately, almost immediately. Because if you focused on really important things, that is the quality that you want to give. then people get the quality. You focus on quality, you deliver quality, people
Kamal Datta: I see.
Marek: get quality, quite simple. And they become
Kamal Datta: Right.
Marek: ambassadors of quality. That's it. If you focus on
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: telling people, because we are best, anyone can do this. The question is, are you really
Kamal Datta: Right. Right.
Marek: best? Who knows?
Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. So how does the quality focused KPA look like for a race?
Marek: I mean, there is every person in their position, every person in their individual job should define it for themselves and their organization should define these for itself. I I'm personally responsible for the competitive part of the Warsaw Marathon. One of my responsibilities, of course, not the only one. And I deal with people,
Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah.
Marek: I select the elite athletes, and I measure my quality by how prepared I am. for the cooperation with the people who come to support me. This is the best measure. organizing a marathon
Kamal Datta: Hm.
Marek: is about responsibility. And about, I would say, trust. okay, the worst example of the worst marathon again, I know the worst of marathon. During the race day, have around
Kamal Datta: No, no, sure, yeah.
Marek: 2,000 volunteers. The
Kamal Datta: Okay.
Marek: only reason that makes them come on Sunday morning to the streets of Warsaw is because they promised to do so. That's it. They don't get paid because they are volunteers,
Kamal Datta: Right.
Marek: right? I have to trust them.
Kamal Datta: R right, right.
Marek: I have to trust them. And they are not coming to help to serve me. I am them. I am here to serve them, to be as well prepared as possible. So my level,
Kamal Datta: Right.
Marek: my personal KPI in the preparation to the race is to be prepared as much as possible so that the people I work with have the fewest possible number of problems when dealing with me. And if that philosophy goes down, the organization, it makes the race
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: smooth, the organization of the race smooth because it goes from up down,
Kamal Datta: Right.
Marek: right? So this is, hard to define.
Kamal Datta: Yeah, yep.
Marek: It's numerically, it's hard to define, but at the same time, you know, you know, if you are experienced enough, you know where you have still a blind spot, where there is something detail that you should take care of. Otherwise you will have to be in trouble on the race day or on Saturday before the race. So that's how I see it.
Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah. Right. So I think what you're alluding to it it's a KPI. It may not be a hundred percent quantifiable. It's a qualitative KPI, but each individual on your team you're helding them accountable for defined for their role so that there is a reduced friction when they're interacting with some people there, like you gave an example of the volunteers, right? They're they they're voluntarily coming, but it's the friction is less because you're trusting them to perform what they're signed up for. But the you are not going to be the bottleneck for them to perform. So you're you're reducing the friction with them. So it's a great way, obviously, to look at you know a qualitative a KPF for sure. Yeah. Now that brings me to the directly the launch of the European Marathon Classic. So congratulations. I think it's a couple of months. I think it has been launched. So you're bringing in eight. Historic marathons, Rome, Madrid, Lisbon, London, Vienna, Warsaw. I think we talked a lot about Warsaw now, Frankfurt and Copenhagen.
Marek: Hm.
Kamal Datta: What was the catalyst for getting these eight organizations into the same room to create a unified challenge?
Marek: Correct. That's another story. Okay.
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: Back in the day, like a few years ago, I was thinking that, there is this word, Marathon majors. There is a super house. And how come there's no European marathons?
Kamal Datta: Yeah Yeah.
Marek: Because it comes so naturally. So there was none. But
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: let's face it, I wasn't in a position back then. four years ago, five years ago, even three years ago, I wasn't in position as the person and also as the race to be able to stop this process. But as you, I wanted to say as you grow old, but as you mature, you realize that if you want to do something, the time is now. And I thought, Okay,
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: maybe, and I'm man of ideas, really. And creating ideas and organizing competitions, sports events was, I mean, was kind of in my bloodline. mean, even in my childhood during the summer holidays, me and my cousins, we were playing in the backyard. and I was organizing sports competitions for them. They keep repeating this until today that I had to end up where I ended up. And I thought, okay,
Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah.
Marek: maybe this is the time that I started to talk to people, to people I didn't know actually. I didn't know the race director of Rome, London, Vienna, whatever.
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: And then I was invited. part of the meeting there was a few other people from other races and we started talking, me and the race director of the Rome Marathon, he said the same thing, look there's no European Marathon circuit, why don't we start organizing it? And I said okay, if
Kamal Datta: Hmm.
Marek: ROM is in the game, because it's in the game, because this guy is saying it, then there's two of us. And that's how it started actually, that was the spark. That was the spark, literally. And
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: then it just went quite quickly because I started talking to people, as simple as that. And we quite quickly were a group of six, ready to start. And... That was the initial idea to start in six. And then we found out along our journey that there is this idea somewhere in the other part of the continent. So we joined forces with this other group. So we ended up eight races altogether. It took us 12 months. between the first talk, the first conversation and the lunch, which is crazy short. I mean, these things don't happen like that.
Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah.
Marek: I mean, that was a wild ride. I know that it wasn't organized by the book, but at the same time, maybe this
Kamal Datta: I see.
Marek: had to be organized that way because with eight races and eight people, actually it's more people, but eight race directors. Let's put it like that. I mean, there are so many differences of opinions, so many different ideas, and some of them are completely different. I mean, you can't have the two at the same time. So we had to do it quickly. We had to take decisions quickly, and some decisions were really made by a very small group of three three people, we said, okay, here's the three of us and we tell the rest what to do. That's it. That's it. The democracy is over.
Kamal Datta: I see.
Marek: least in this section, in this segment. There was
Kamal Datta: I see, I see.
Marek: a lot of friction. There was a lot of friction, I admit. But at the end of the day, I think that everyone is happy with where we are at the moment, really, because we are beginning to work. and think as one organism doesn't mean that these races are becoming uniform because they will never be uniform, they will never be even similar. But where it's necessary, we are thinking as one and working as one, which is great.
Kamal Datta: Awesome. So I have to see how much you are able to share about the friction part because I I'm always very interested in, you know, you have an idea. So you had a chat with the race director of the Rome Marathon, and that where it took root, and then you pulled together other race directors of some iconic races to get along with the fiction, right? Where was the friction? Is the ideas like what is the vision of that CD should be? Like, or it was more on why I need to be part of this series. I was curious, like friction is in ideas or friction is in execution, or friction was it more misalignment on the vision?
Marek: Well, an example. The biggest friction probably that we had was about the way we are treating the past finishes in our marathons, those before 2026, what we call the historical finishes. Because I mean it's quite rare.
Kamal Datta: I see.
Marek: mean it's I mean it's not typical right because there were the project was launched 2026 February 2026 so one would think okay So this means that from now on if you finish one of our races it counts and That would be natural,
Kamal Datta: Mm, okay.
Marek: but then Hugh Brasher the race director of London Marathon said no no no no no let's recognize all the past finishes and all the historical races that anyone has ever run in London, Copenhagen, Vienna, etc. And of course, most of the people said, come on, how come? I mean, we want people to run our races. If we recognize past finishes, these people are not
Kamal Datta: yeah.
Marek: going to run our race anymore. What's the point? But I mean, Hubernacher is a visionary.
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: He's a kind love him hate him guy. Sometimes he can really get on your nerves, but I mean he's a visionary and he said one thing guys We have around three million people already who have finished the London Marathon Do we want and they don't have to run anymore? But they have already started the European Martin classic series. Do you want them in do we want them in our database or not? And it was so obvious
Kamal Datta: Okay. Okay.
Marek: what the answer to this is. It was so obvious. And of course, again,
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: what's dug deeper is the mechanics of it, right? Because now you have to design a system. You have to design IT and web tools to recognize
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: past finishes. You have to... get the databases of the past results. It quickly turned out that only two races
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: have complete set of results from history. And it's not easy.
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: that these results from the databases from the 1980s are structured in a completely different way than what we want them to be. So it takes... effort on the side of the people to restructure them, to prepare them properly, to get them into the proper Excel files, so to say, right? Some of them were on paper, simple as that. But I
Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah. wow.
Marek: think we did overcome most of these obstacles. We don't have a complete set of results from all the races, but we are getting so few complaints from people who can't in a in an automatic way, find the results in our database. So I'm really, really very happy that it happened that way. So that was an example of a friction. mean, the funny part is that we were sitting before the launch. It was probably four hours before the physical launch in Vienna, February 25th, 2026. And we were sitting there,
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: 16 of us, that is two people from every race. we were, I mean, everything was ready for the launch, everything. press releases and stuff, everything. And some of the people in this room were still arguing that we should still reconsider the way the historical results will be treated. And I was saying,
Kamal Datta: See.
Marek: I was thinking, guys, it's not possible anymore. We can talk about everything, but it's going to happen the way it's going to happen. So probably this was the
Kamal Datta: Y yeah, yeah.
Marek: big... This was probably the biggest friction that we had to face and kind of massage, so to say.
Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah. So yeah, as you said, you know, there is a democracy, but there are still some decisions needs to be what do you call make a decision, either make it right or we learn in the process. that I think the path you choose. How did you go about which race need to be part of this series? I'm sure there is there are some stories behind it.
Marek: Yeah, there are some stories behind it Okay, number one number
Kamal Datta: Or is it whoever agreed? Yeah. Okay.
Marek: one number one you would be surprised how many races said no and You would be surprised
Kamal Datta: really?
Marek: Really really I mean you would think okay, what would be a single Logical reason to say no to such an idea Can you name one?
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: Now I can name one. I can name a few. And because I have talked to people. But there is so many races that are not in this project. Although initially I did think they should be in the project. Obviously I cannot say what names are, names of the cities are. But it's not so... It's more complicated than you would think, right? And another thing that
Kamal Datta: I see.
Marek: I want to say is that it's always about the people. Because you don't work with races. A race is a virtual phenomenon. It doesn't exist.
Kamal Datta: Right.
Marek: What exists is the people.
Kamal Datta: Uh-huh.
Marek: So it's the people that you work with. And you either want to work with someone or you don't, anywhere in between.
Kamal Datta: Right. Yeah.
Marek: So again, like in any other project, you are looking for the right people who either are very much like you, who think the way you do, who act the way you do, who... you could spend the next, I don't know, five years with because you feel that they are your breed. Or you look for people who can supplement your deficiencies, who can help you
Kamal Datta: Right.
Marek: in the areas where you struggle. And
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: it's very important to... to understand if you're looking at this project from the runners perspective that of course well I can myself easily name a few races in Europe that could easily fit in European Marathon Classics. I'm aware of that but at the same time again
Kamal Datta: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Marek: No is a no. That's it.
Kamal Datta: Interesting. What was the ultimately the unifying incentive for this eight race organizers? I think that's a very good point to Elohid. You're working with the people at the end of the day. So you need to align your vision where we are going towards with that vision. What was kind of the unified I I don't know if the incentive is the right word I'm using, but I'm talking about what unified eight of eight eight of the organizers of these races.
Marek: I think it was very simple. It's a group of people who really wanted it. I'll tell you a story. was,
Kamal Datta: okay.
Marek: I was, that was, April, 2025. was Thursday, Thursday. before the London Marathon date. And I was in London and I was invited to a seminar
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: or a conference hosted by Let's Do This. Let'sDoThis.com. okay, and
Kamal Datta: yeah, okay.
Marek: there was a segment in the program where there were two people, and I was already very much in this European, it wasn't European Marathon Classics then, but. It was the Euro project, let's call it that way, the nickname Euro project. And I was very much into it already.
Kamal Datta: I see. I see.
Marek: And there were two people on
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: the stage. One of them was one of the key people in the New York City Marathon. I don't remember who it was. And the other one was Cathy Vido, Catherine Vido from Vienna City Marathon. And they were... And someone asked a question about the World Marathon majors and why isn't there like a second tier of the World Marathon majors? Because the market wants something else, something below or something other than World Marathon majors. They sell out. I mean, you can literally...
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: You can't literally get into one of them. So that would easily fill in the niche. And I
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: remember Catherine saying, yes, that's a very good idea, but who would decide which races would be in it? And I thought, Catherine, the answer is so obvious to it. This decision will be made by those who want it the most. That's it. There is nobody who will decide.
Kamal Datta: Right. Right.
Marek: It's not the world athletics. It's not
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: nobody else. It's going to be done
Kamal Datta: Yeah, yeah.
Marek: by someone who wants it the most. And this is actually what
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: I told her. If you want to do this with me, let's do this together. As simple as that. If you want it as
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: much as I do. And a year and a half later, I'm in a situation, in a point where I can say these eight races are organized by the people who just wanted it the most. And their reasons, their internal reasons may have been different. Because for Hugh Brasher,
Kamal Datta: Is he?
Marek: his why was definitely way different than my why. I mean, let's face it, London Marathon doesn't need European Marathon classics. They don't
Kamal Datta: That's true, yeah.
Marek: need more people in the ballot. But
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: Hugh wanted a European project for his internal reasons. And that's great. But he wanted it. He worked for it. He was one of the hardest working people in this project. although he didn't have to. I don't care. That's great. So again, it
Kamal Datta: I see. I see.
Marek: was repeated, but this was absolutely critical in I think every project that struggles, that doesn't go, you would like it to go, that stalls, that is look for people who want it as much as you do.
Kamal Datta: Mm.
Marek: It's gonna make your life so much easier.
Kamal Datta: I see. very well said. So I think you eluded World Marathon mergers a couple of times. So I think I had a related, I think, area that I wanted to touch on with you. So basically, World Marathon mergers dominated this bucket list narrative in marathon travel for years, right? and this is more alluding to the sports tourism aspect of it. Now, do you think is European Marathon Classics meant to be a direct alternative or a complementary series designed specifically for European sports tourism.
Marek: Definitely we're not going to compete with the world Martyrs and Matress because it's a totally different beast, it's totally different animal, their history is different, that's not us. mean, we are a very good alternative because we are local in a way. I mean, there is lots of people around Europe who would love to set their foot on the journey across something. But let's face it, doing the World Marathon Majors is so expensive. While doing the
Kamal Datta: yeah.
Marek: European Marathon Classics, it's a fraction of what doing the World Marathon
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: would cost. Plus, I think we will have a very credible story to tell. Because it's Europe, it's one continent. And Europe is very specific. Because it has so many stories inside. It has so many cultures, so many regions, so many... Uhhhh
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: So much has happened in the past that we can build and create a story around traveling across Europe and discovering destinations through marathons that I don't think there's going to be any competition between the word marathon majors and European marathon classics because there needs to be none.
Kamal Datta: Right, right. Is sports tourism Complementing this classic series, or is the other way around? Cause I I think one of the drivers for especially people who run destination races, right? You know, I'm one of those because I do look at it a way where I can bring my family, I have my own running goals, I can check off, and I can also get the chance to visit a city, a a classic city and history and culture. with my family, right? And a lot of the driving factor. Do you think it is some of the cities that is on the series are obviously, you know, classic European cities. Everybody wants to go there. Do you think this series is on top of it or is the reverse way that you think that it would increase the sports tourism because of this series?
Marek: I think it can work both ways. first of all, I'm a big fan of working on the so-called runner's experience because it's absolutely essential for the understanding of why people choose your race instead of others, instead of any other. But at the same time, I'm a big fan of expanding the runner experience from the race day experience to the race weekend experience and why not to the whole race week maybe experience in the long run if you look at this. Obviously, going to a city to run a marathon... is not holidays. I mean, it's not not in the summertime because marathons are in spring, the fall is different than going on seven, seven for seven day holiday. But again, if we are able to change our races and develop them into not just a marathon or running experience but into a tourism experience, cultural experience, get to know the city experience, get to know the people experience, everyone will be happy because people, the runners and their families will choose it voluntarily. That's number one. The cities will be much
Kamal Datta: Right.
Marek: happier because they will benefit financially. And the cities
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: that are building this culture will benefit, will thrive because they will be the leaders in this way of thinking, in this movement, whatever phrase we use here. I think, again, it starts with how you want to be different. What do you want to build? and then just doing it with a plan, with an idea, with a goal. And to me, again, going back to the deep roots of the classics, it's about defining how these eight races and eight cities, most of all, can be complementary to one another. Because they can, and they are complementary,
Kamal Datta: Mm. I see.
Marek: but... It's the story that we have to bring up and tell.
Kamal Datta: Makes sense. Now talking about I know you started in 2026, February you launched. If you say look ahead, say five to ten years, how do you see these series or urban marathons evolving in Europe? And what is your vision for the future even for Warsaw that you know obviously your personal leading to?
Marek: That's a very strategic question. Strategy is something that we are working on currently. Well,
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: if I were to say one thing, that would be that my personal opinion, very important, it's not an opinion of a CEO of European Marathon Classics,
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: my personal opinion is this. mean, Marathon was created, invented by a European, It was first run in Europe and the distance was set
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: in Europe. It's an European invention.
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: It's a European thing. And we should take this seriously and make at least a part of our mission to protect the heritage and the future of the Marathon. That is, we should become the benchmark. The benchmark in any possible way that can keep the marathon where it should be or put it where it should be and make sure that it will become and remain, but not even become, remain something that is of special value. Personally, For example, what I didn't like quite recently is that the marathon distance was applied to race walking events by the World Athletics. Okay, it's a foot race too,
Kamal Datta: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Marek: but a marathon, the 42k, 42.195, it was a race, a running race, not a walking race. So I didn't like that development because to me it's...
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: It endangers in a way the position of the marathons as it is. I wouldn't if I were I were Sir Sebastian coach, I wouldn't do that.
Kamal Datta: I see. I see. Interesting. a and where do you think it's headed in five years? Like I think you you measure KPIs as you say it. And I know it's a very strategic question too, because you're just getting started. what would be your vision that I think, hey, come on, what I started, I'll be very happy if you are in in this state in end of five, ten years.
Marek: I'll be happy. when it'll be very obvious for every European marathoner to have European marathon classics on their to-do list, even if they will be too shy or too scared to even think about it. Because,
Kamal Datta: Mm.
Marek: let's face it, To think, I remember how scared I was before I started my first marathon. That was scary. I,
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: come on, let's face it, it was even scary before London 2026. Jesus, I was so scared. Then forget five. Forget
Kamal Datta: Every start line is scary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Marek: five. But if you are runner, if you want
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: to try your first marathon. You should have in mind that, okay, there is this European Marathon Classics because they are the guys who are our thing, who are the European marathons, who are those who
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: protect history, who set the standards, who care for runners, who create new ideas, who are the hub. And I want to this journey, no matter how much it hurts. and it's going to hurt.
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: Five times, at least.
Kamal Datta: I see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I see that how strategically you are thinking. You didn't say that I want to see the the Marathon classics battle and every runner's wall. You you say that I at least they should start thinking about it, which is a great strategy kind of thinking about why where you want to see this popularity of this classic series expand. So which is it's just great weather. Thank you for sharing that. I have a very curious obvious question and i'll leave up to if you are if you want to chime in or not g given your passion right i'm just curious why ethens marathon is not part of the classic series or is it part of the wire that you cannot align on your your your vision and mission for the series
Marek: Hmmmm My answer, my Marek's answer. Okay? Athens Marathon was the first international marathon that I ran. And I wanted to run
Kamal Datta: wow, okay.
Marek: my first international marathon in Athens, period, nowhere else. And I did. And Athens
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. Because of the history, yeah. Yeah.
Marek: is always welcome. Or in other words, I'll put it differently. Athens will... always have my support if they are interested in joining European Martian Classics.
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm. I see. Alright. Thank you for sharing that. Let's move to as we wrap up. let's go to the rapid five round. I'll have you some simple questions, so I think it should probably be easy for you to answer.
Marek: Mm-hmm.
Kamal Datta: First one, what is your
Marek: Mm-hmm.
Kamal Datta: single favorite marathon course in the world outside Warsaw? So obviously you should have a special place in your heart, but outside Warsaw, which is your favorite one?
Marek: Course or Marathon?
Kamal Datta: any single favorite marathon course.
Marek: Course, okay, course, that's important.
Kamal Datta: Yeah. Yeah.
Marek: you Well... Well, you started with a tough one.
Kamal Datta: Well you have a lot of everything then, okay?
Marek: Okay. I know if favorite is the right word but I love the course of Jerusalem Marathon. Although it was hard as hell, but it was great. Just great. Not for PVs. Don't go for PV to Jerusalem.
Kamal Datta: Okay, okay. Yeah, if you ask some people here, it's like favorite course would be a Disney Marathon course, right? Because of what it offers you in the course, not go for PV, it's the same thing, because you could be distracted all
Marek: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kamal Datta: along on the race course. Yeah, yeah. second one, if you could eliminate one logistical nightmare of a race day with a magic wand, what that would be.
Marek: water stations.
Kamal Datta: wow. Double click on it. I'm curious. Why?
Marek: Or, or, or, or, to put it in perspective, I would eliminate
Kamal Datta: huh.
Marek: the first, I would eliminate the first table at every water station because this is where most of the runners try to get their water from, the first table, as if the remaining 50 didn't exist.
Kamal Datta: Okay, double click on it. I'm very curious. I know we have so much innovations going on and different adaption of sustainable aspects of you know replacing water cups and you know the way we serve it, but why would you want to do that? Removing water stations.
Marek: That was obviously a joke. yes, this is always something that we are discussing after the race. What the hell makes them rush to the first table? There's like, I don't know, 50 tables at every station. They always attack the first one. And the people from table 10 on...
Kamal Datta: True. Yeah.
Marek: They have nothing to do. That's the job, of course.
Kamal Datta: Yeah, no, I I got it. Yeah.
Marek: I don't think there is any nightmare at the moment that I have. What can be a nightmare is something that you don't expect and you didn't predict. Something that you weren't ready for. But I don't see any nightmare in the organization at the moment that I would say, gee, I would love to get rid of it. No, I didn't think so.
Kamal Datta: Mm. Okay. Thank you for expanding on on your first response. So pre-race party before the race or cold beer after the finish line?
Marek: Say it again?
Kamal Datta: A pre race party before the race or a cold beer after the finish line.
Marek: Ummmm as a runner or as an organizer.
Kamal Datta: as a runner.
Marek: Mmmmm
Kamal Datta: Or it could respond as a both, 'cause I think you are w putting on both shoes.
Marek: Okay, as a runner, probably pre-race party because I like the pre-race atmosphere, I mean the Saturday atmosphere. I
Kamal Datta: Mm-hmm.
Marek: like the chill then. I like when you know that there is this day tomorrow and you feel that everything that you could do or could have done you have done or maybe not but you can't change that and that there is
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: this element of maybe not relaxation but calmness in you so i like it i like to sit down and although you know what's what's coming i like i like it so yes yes saturday pre-racing
Kamal Datta: Cool at as organizer?
Marek: I don't like the atmosphere after the race because you have to clean the place. So definitely Saturday.
Kamal Datta: Okay, so you have a uniform answer in both ways. Okay, that's great. Alright, next one is a little interesting one too. Carbon plated shoes. Revolutionary game changer or a overhyped tech?
Marek: Technology is not my thing, definitely. That's number one. So I've never been in any way interested in sports technology, in shoes, et cetera, et cetera. But I do believe that, because I repeat what others say, people who are really smart, I mean, that the
Kamal Datta: Mm.
Marek: carbon plates have... revolutionized the running. yeah, that's what I think. agree.
Kamal Datta: Thank you, thank you. Last one. What is
Marek: Mm-hmm.
Kamal Datta: the core emotion every runner feels at kilometer thirty-eight? And you you have run fifteen marathons, so I'm sure you have some take on this.
Marek: Yeah, what's the core emotion? I've gotten that far that even if I slow down, I'm gonna make it. So at kilometer 38, I think it's a mix of hope and relief already. The relief is beginning to creep in, mixed with hope that it's not going to last. forever.
Kamal Datta: Mm.
Marek: That's how I see that part because you know how the runner's mind works. 38 is like, I mean the next one is 39 and 9 is the last one that you know rounds the 30 thing, right? So it's almost there and 40 is almost the finish.
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: It's not the finish though because it's another 2.2
Kamal Datta: Yeah.
Marek: which is such a long way to go but anyway it's almost there. So at 38 you are almost there. Which doesn't mean you are almost there because you're not almost there. But you want to believe that you're almost there.
Kamal Datta: Yeah. Like I I don't know, I'm sure a lot of people also think like I think in five K increments, it's like you my my my last five K loop. So if you ever running around your house in a five K loop, I have to go another loop. So kinda I'm there,
Marek: Yeah. Yeah.
Kamal Datta: but almost all almost not there yet, but just another five K loop that maybe you can replay your ha head that way. All right, Mark. Thank you so much for coming on What Runs Around Pod and sharing your perspective, your stories, personal stories of Warshow Marathon, how you rebuild it, and then the stories of the the European Marathon Classics that how you put together the vision and what you have for the future as well. So, and to our listeners, if you can you can check out the European Marathon Classics at European Marathon Classics.eu. any finishing thought before we close our discussion, Marek?
Marek: Enjoy every minute of your life and go out for a run because it's probably one of the best ways to do this, to enjoy it. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, really.